[BostonCard]

[quote author=JeffInCorvallis link=topic=16170.msg180415#msg180415 date=1479935503]
Because they insist on playing us (and Literature's Famous Losers in the off-years) at the end of the season after Thanksgiving.  If you want to know why they do this and why Stanford does not insist on them hosting us the week after Thanksgiving you only need visit South Bend in November.

Ok, thank you. But I may pass on the South Bend tour.
Maybe the Irish should "host" Stanford in Honolulu after Thanksgiving. Lots of green-clad Manti Teo fans, and ND fans may not mind that they "have to" go to Hawaii every other year. :)
[/quote]

Maybe the entire Lennay Kekua clan can show up.

[BostonCard]

[quote author=JeffInCorvallis link=topic=16170.msg180415#msg180415 date=1479935503]
Because they insist on playing us (and Literature's Famous Losers in the off-years) at the end of the season after Thanksgiving.  If you want to know why they do this and why Stanford does not insist on them hosting us the week after Thanksgiving you only need visit South Bend in November.

Ok, thank you. But I may pass on the South Bend tour.
Maybe the Irish should "host" Stanford in Honolulu after Thanksgiving. Lots of green-clad Manti Teo fans, and ND fans may not mind that they "have to" go to Hawaii every other year. :)
[/quote]

Maybe the entire Lennay Kekua clan can show up.

[CTcard]

Why is it that the ND game only throws our schedule out of whack when we host them?

For a little more detail ...

It kind of depends upon what you mean by out of whack.

When we host them, the game happens the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the last day of the regular college football season. Some consider that by itself out of whack - that we should always end the season with Big Game.

When we travel to South Bend, like this year, the game is still in the middle of the season. To fit that in, it takes place during our natural bye week, i.e. where there is a hole in the conference schedule. So, in years we host we don't have a mid-season second conference open-date to accommodate a bye week.

Either way, unlike the rest of the Pac 12, we don't play all of our out of conference games in the first three weeks. The only other team for which that is true is $C which has the mirror deal with und. So, another consequence is that we usually play $C very early. This year the game was in the third week and was the first Pac 12 game of the season overall.

[CTcard]

Why is it that the ND game only throws our schedule out of whack when we host them?

For a little more detail ...

It kind of depends upon what you mean by out of whack.

When we host them, the game happens the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the last day of the regular college football season. Some consider that by itself out of whack - that we should always end the season with Big Game.

When we travel to South Bend, like this year, the game is still in the middle of the season. To fit that in, it takes place during our natural bye week, i.e. where there is a hole in the conference schedule. So, in years we host we don't have a mid-season second conference open-date to accommodate a bye week.

Either way, unlike the rest of the Pac 12, we don't play all of our out of conference games in the first three weeks. The only other team for which that is true is $C which has the mirror deal with und. So, another consequence is that we usually play $C very early. This year the game was in the third week and was the first Pac 12 game of the season overall.

[oldalum]

I'm still trying to understand why in an even year like this we can't play Cal as the last game of the regular season. I know someone has to play UCLA while USC is playing voter dame this week, but in 2010 it was neither of us, yet we still didn't get to play the Big Game as the last game.

[oldalum]

I'm still trying to understand why in an even year like this we can't play Cal as the last game of the regular season. I know someone has to play UCLA while USC is playing voter dame this week, but in 2010 it was neither of us, yet we still didn't get to play the Big Game as the last game.

[CTcard]

I'm still trying to understand why in an even year like this we can't play ןɐɔ as the last game of the regular season. I know someone has to play UCLA while Under Stanford Control (again) is playing voter dame this week, but in 2010 it was neither of us, yet we still didn't get to play the Big Game as the last game.

The main reason is that both Stanford and ןɐɔ refuse to play Thanksgiving weekend because the holiday will ruin all of the festivities that take place during the week.

[CTcard]

I'm still trying to understand why in an even year like this we can't play ןɐɔ as the last game of the regular season. I know someone has to play UCLA while Under Stanford Control (again) is playing voter dame this week, but in 2010 it was neither of us, yet we still didn't get to play the Big Game as the last game.

The main reason is that both Stanford and ןɐɔ refuse to play Thanksgiving weekend because the holiday will ruin all of the festivities that take place during the week.

[French Rage]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=16170.msg180421#msg180421 date=1479940200]
I'm still trying to understand why in an even year like this we can't play ןɐɔ as the last game of the regular season. I know someone has to play UCLA while Under Stanford Control (again) is playing voter dame this week, but in 2010 it was neither of us, yet we still didn't get to play the Big Game as the last game.

The main reason is that both Stanford and ןɐɔ refuse to play Thanksgiving weekend because the holiday will ruin all of the festivities that take place during the week.
[/quote]

And the other option would be to play no game on Thanksgiving weekend, but that means no bye for the entire season.

[French Rage]

[quote author=oldalum link=topic=16170.msg180421#msg180421 date=1479940200]
I'm still trying to understand why in an even year like this we can't play ןɐɔ as the last game of the regular season. I know someone has to play UCLA while Under Stanford Control (again) is playing voter dame this week, but in 2010 it was neither of us, yet we still didn't get to play the Big Game as the last game.

The main reason is that both Stanford and ןɐɔ refuse to play Thanksgiving weekend because the holiday will ruin all of the festivities that take place during the week.
[/quote]

And the other option would be to play no game on Thanksgiving weekend, but that means no bye for the entire season.

[CrazedZooChimp]

The article does not actually explain why we're playing Rice in the last game. It explains why we're playing Rice, but it was not originally supposed to be the last game. As it said, we were supposed to open our season against them, but the move was not because we had an opening we somehow forgot about. http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/06/rice-...-stanford/

Originally we had Northwestern on our schedule in both '15 and '16, but you'll recall they wimped out went the Big-10 decided to go to a 9 game conference schedule (They kept our 2019 game but dropped 2020-2022 as well): http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/08/stanf...-schedule/

You notice at the time the Rice game was still on the schedule for early 2016.

That created the extra opening on our schedule, which needed to be filled rather last minute (like, one years notice). Luckily, Stanford was able to schedule a Power-5 team, KSU, rather last minute. BUT, KSU could only play on the 2nd, so we had to move the Rice game, and Rice could only be moved to Thanksgiving, I believe: http://www.gostanford.com/news/2015/10/1...h=football

And so that is why we play Rice Thanksgiving weekend, instead of our original Non-Conference schedule of Rice on 9/3, NW on 9/24, and ND on 10/15 or whatever it was. So when you want someone to blame, don't blame our AD or Rice or KSU or the Pac-12, blame the assholes from the Big-10 and Northwestern who couldn't, God forbid, man up and play one extra Power-5 team in 2016. They had to keep Illinois State and Western Michigan on the schedule, but I guess losing to both of them was some nice karmic retribution for the Wildcats.

[CrazedZooChimp]

The article does not actually explain why we're playing Rice in the last game. It explains why we're playing Rice, but it was not originally supposed to be the last game. As it said, we were supposed to open our season against them, but the move was not because we had an opening we somehow forgot about. http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/06/rice-...-stanford/

Originally we had Northwestern on our schedule in both '15 and '16, but you'll recall they wimped out went the Big-10 decided to go to a 9 game conference schedule (They kept our 2019 game but dropped 2020-2022 as well): http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/08/stanf...-schedule/

You notice at the time the Rice game was still on the schedule for early 2016.

That created the extra opening on our schedule, which needed to be filled rather last minute (like, one years notice). Luckily, Stanford was able to schedule a Power-5 team, KSU, rather last minute. BUT, KSU could only play on the 2nd, so we had to move the Rice game, and Rice could only be moved to Thanksgiving, I believe: http://www.gostanford.com/news/2015/10/1...h=football

And so that is why we play Rice Thanksgiving weekend, instead of our original Non-Conference schedule of Rice on 9/3, NW on 9/24, and ND on 10/15 or whatever it was. So when you want someone to blame, don't blame our AD or Rice or KSU or the Pac-12, blame the assholes from the Big-10 and Northwestern who couldn't, God forbid, man up and play one extra Power-5 team in 2016. They had to keep Illinois State and Western Michigan on the schedule, but I guess losing to both of them was some nice karmic retribution for the Wildcats.

[Farm93]

From the Pac-12 perspective ending with a lame OOC or UCLA is Stanford's problem, therefore Stanford gets what it deserves at this point.

USC and Stanford have mirror October South Bend and Thanksgiving Saturday in California deals.  ND drives those terms.  Stanford could solve the problem by discontinuing the ND deal, but not really the Pac-12's problem to solve.  FWIW - ND continues to get closer and closer to the ACC, so ND might make this move away from Stanford at some point anyway.

With USC and Stanford in that shared rotation, UCB and UCLA get a bit of a scheduling problem too.  Also USC and UCLA are willing to play their rivalry on Thanksgiving Saturdays when ND is not in the way, Stanford and Cal are not.

Put it together and Stanford is a very difficult team for the Pac-12 to schedule.  The conference probably has settled on a schedule that works, and Stanford will continue to see, as long as the Pac-12 remains at 12 and ND plays SC and Stanford.

Even Years - Stanford or UCB plays UCLA on Thanksgiving Saturday.  The other Bay Area program plays OOC.  Further, if there is even a chance that UCLA and Stanford (or UCB) are division contenders then try hard to avoid putting them together in that last regular season week.
Odd Years - Stanford plays Notre Dame.  Therefore UCB has an open Thanksgiving slot.  The problem is that UCLA and USC are willing to play each other on Thanksgiving Saturday.  So UCB must play an OOC in odd years thanks to Stanford or take a last week bye.

Going forward my guess is is UCB will get UCLA in even years, especially since that rivalry actually is meaningful to those schools.  Stanford will get an OOC or a Bye.  UCB already suffers with odd year season ending OOC games thanks to Stanford's ND contract, so hard for the Pac-12 to give them the even year OOC burden too.

The type of OOC in even years is up to Stanford, but not that many strong programs would want to travel to, or even host, Stanford at that stage of the season.  SJSU often has their conference trying to create rivalry games on Thanksgiving Saturday, so SJSU is not the best default option even if they weren't chasing big program appearance money.  The even year future will be Rice, Army and other relatively low tier programs without a natural rival to play on Thanksgiving Saturday because a bye that week would be bad for Stanford if it has CFP chances.

[Farm93]

From the Pac-12 perspective ending with a lame OOC or UCLA is Stanford's problem, therefore Stanford gets what it deserves at this point.

USC and Stanford have mirror October South Bend and Thanksgiving Saturday in California deals.  ND drives those terms.  Stanford could solve the problem by discontinuing the ND deal, but not really the Pac-12's problem to solve.  FWIW - ND continues to get closer and closer to the ACC, so ND might make this move away from Stanford at some point anyway.

With USC and Stanford in that shared rotation, UCB and UCLA get a bit of a scheduling problem too.  Also USC and UCLA are willing to play their rivalry on Thanksgiving Saturdays when ND is not in the way, Stanford and Cal are not.

Put it together and Stanford is a very difficult team for the Pac-12 to schedule.  The conference probably has settled on a schedule that works, and Stanford will continue to see, as long as the Pac-12 remains at 12 and ND plays SC and Stanford.

Even Years - Stanford or UCB plays UCLA on Thanksgiving Saturday.  The other Bay Area program plays OOC.  Further, if there is even a chance that UCLA and Stanford (or UCB) are division contenders then try hard to avoid putting them together in that last regular season week.
Odd Years - Stanford plays Notre Dame.  Therefore UCB has an open Thanksgiving slot.  The problem is that UCLA and USC are willing to play each other on Thanksgiving Saturday.  So UCB must play an OOC in odd years thanks to Stanford or take a last week bye.

Going forward my guess is is UCB will get UCLA in even years, especially since that rivalry actually is meaningful to those schools.  Stanford will get an OOC or a Bye.  UCB already suffers with odd year season ending OOC games thanks to Stanford's ND contract, so hard for the Pac-12 to give them the even year OOC burden too.

The type of OOC in even years is up to Stanford, but not that many strong programs would want to travel to, or even host, Stanford at that stage of the season.  SJSU often has their conference trying to create rivalry games on Thanksgiving Saturday, so SJSU is not the best default option even if they weren't chasing big program appearance money.  The even year future will be Rice, Army and other relatively low tier programs without a natural rival to play on Thanksgiving Saturday because a bye that week would be bad for Stanford if it has CFP chances.

[JJJ]

[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16170.msg180414#msg180414 date=1479935324]
Why is it that the ND game only throws our schedule out of whack when we host them?

For a little more detail ...

It kind of depends upon what you mean by out of whack.

When we host them, the game happens the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the last day of the regular college football season. Some consider that by itself out of whack - that we should always end the season with Big Game.

When we travel to South Bend, like this year, the game is still in the middle of the season. To fit that in, it takes place during our natural bye week, i.e. where there is a hole in the conference schedule. So, in years we host we don't have a mid-season second conference open-date to accommodate a bye week.

Either way, unlike the rest of the Pac 12, we don't play all of our out of conference games in the first three weeks. The only other team for which that is true is $C which has the mirror deal with und. So, another consequence is that we usually play $C very early. This year the game was in the third week and was the first Pac 12 game of the season overall.


[/quote]
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Sounds like everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate ND. And as a result, many students don't have a chance to enjoy watching the $C battles live...

[JJJ]

[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16170.msg180414#msg180414 date=1479935324]
Why is it that the ND game only throws our schedule out of whack when we host them?

For a little more detail ...

It kind of depends upon what you mean by out of whack.

When we host them, the game happens the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the last day of the regular college football season. Some consider that by itself out of whack - that we should always end the season with Big Game.

When we travel to South Bend, like this year, the game is still in the middle of the season. To fit that in, it takes place during our natural bye week, i.e. where there is a hole in the conference schedule. So, in years we host we don't have a mid-season second conference open-date to accommodate a bye week.

Either way, unlike the rest of the Pac 12, we don't play all of our out of conference games in the first three weeks. The only other team for which that is true is $C which has the mirror deal with und. So, another consequence is that we usually play $C very early. This year the game was in the third week and was the first Pac 12 game of the season overall.


[/quote]
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Sounds like everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate ND. And as a result, many students don't have a chance to enjoy watching the $C battles live...

[French Rage]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=16170.msg180420#msg180420 date=1479939773]
[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16170.msg180414#msg180414 date=1479935324]
Why is it that the ND game only throws our schedule out of whack when we host them?

For a little more detail ...

It kind of depends upon what you mean by out of whack.

When we host them, the game happens the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the last day of the regular college football season. Some consider that by itself out of whack - that we should always end the season with Big Game.

When we travel to South Bend, like this year, the game is still in the middle of the season. To fit that in, it takes place during our natural bye week, i.e. where there is a hole in the conference schedule. So, in years we host we don't have a mid-season second conference open-date to accommodate a bye week.

Either way, unlike the rest of the Pac 12, we don't play all of our out of conference games in the first three weeks. The only other team for which that is true is $C which has the mirror deal with und. So, another consequence is that we usually play $C very early. This year the game was in the third week and was the first Pac 12 game of the season overall.


[/quote]
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Sounds like everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate ND. And as a result, many students don't have a chance to enjoy watching the $C battles live...
[/quote]

For that matter, students don't even get to watch the ND game, since few are around the Saturday after Thanksgiving.  Is it cynical to assume that our AD wants to play ND here on Thanksgiving weekend so they can sell students seats to the public for a higher price, or is there a good reason for it?

[French Rage]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=16170.msg180420#msg180420 date=1479939773]
[quote author=JJJ link=topic=16170.msg180414#msg180414 date=1479935324]
Why is it that the ND game only throws our schedule out of whack when we host them?

For a little more detail ...

It kind of depends upon what you mean by out of whack.

When we host them, the game happens the Saturday after Thanksgiving, the last day of the regular college football season. Some consider that by itself out of whack - that we should always end the season with Big Game.

When we travel to South Bend, like this year, the game is still in the middle of the season. To fit that in, it takes place during our natural bye week, i.e. where there is a hole in the conference schedule. So, in years we host we don't have a mid-season second conference open-date to accommodate a bye week.

Either way, unlike the rest of the Pac 12, we don't play all of our out of conference games in the first three weeks. The only other team for which that is true is $C which has the mirror deal with und. So, another consequence is that we usually play $C very early. This year the game was in the third week and was the first Pac 12 game of the season overall.


[/quote]
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Sounds like everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate ND. And as a result, many students don't have a chance to enjoy watching the $C battles live...
[/quote]

For that matter, students don't even get to watch the ND game, since few are around the Saturday after Thanksgiving.  Is it cynical to assume that our AD wants to play ND here on Thanksgiving weekend so they can sell students seats to the public for a higher price, or is there a good reason for it?