[qwerty49]

Total kick return yards does seem pretty meaningless. It’s also a function of how many times the other team kicked off to you, which in turn is somewhat reflective of how many scoring drives we allowed, etc etc.

I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.

But yes, Scarlett did a good job on KORs for us.

[quote author=MustardtheBallCarrier link=topic=18429.msg221031#msg221031 date=1515700871]
The interesting thing to me is that if Love comes back, to best help the team he would likely be used in the same role he was last season.  He played that role about as well as one could.  What more could he show running the ball?  Maybe adding weight and showing durability.

Is Shaw going to play Love on passing downs when there are much better pass blocking RB on the team?  Love can improve his technique but his size is what it is.  Is Shaw going to put Love in the slot or out wide when there are much better receiving threats on the team?  Is Shaw going to have Love return kicks when there are better choices from a ball security standpoint and those touches risk injury to the most critical offensive player?

First of all, my guess is that if Love is to return, it will not be primarily to improve his profile to the NFL.


Secondly, I see no reason at all for Love to come out on third down plays (he should come out from time to time, just not specifically third down plays).
His pass blocking isn't great but not atrocious. More importantly, I don't see any reason he cannot be effective as an outlet. Backs catching a dump off usually have at least a few steps of space around them, and having Love with some space seems like a very good idea.

Don't know if he should return kicks or not. On the one hand, it does seem as if he ought to be very good at it - that whole having space thing again. On the other, he does need some plays off and Scarlett was at least good at this role last year. (#2 in Pac 12 in yds/return; #1 in the country in total kick return yards ... which may be a pretty meaningless stat)
Do kick off returners really suffer injury at a greater rate than running backs?
[/quote]

[qwerty49]

Total kick return yards does seem pretty meaningless. It’s also a function of how many times the other team kicked off to you, which in turn is somewhat reflective of how many scoring drives we allowed, etc etc.

I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.

But yes, Scarlett did a good job on KORs for us.

[quote author=MustardtheBallCarrier link=topic=18429.msg221031#msg221031 date=1515700871]
The interesting thing to me is that if Love comes back, to best help the team he would likely be used in the same role he was last season.  He played that role about as well as one could.  What more could he show running the ball?  Maybe adding weight and showing durability.

Is Shaw going to play Love on passing downs when there are much better pass blocking RB on the team?  Love can improve his technique but his size is what it is.  Is Shaw going to put Love in the slot or out wide when there are much better receiving threats on the team?  Is Shaw going to have Love return kicks when there are better choices from a ball security standpoint and those touches risk injury to the most critical offensive player?

First of all, my guess is that if Love is to return, it will not be primarily to improve his profile to the NFL.


Secondly, I see no reason at all for Love to come out on third down plays (he should come out from time to time, just not specifically third down plays).
His pass blocking isn't great but not atrocious. More importantly, I don't see any reason he cannot be effective as an outlet. Backs catching a dump off usually have at least a few steps of space around them, and having Love with some space seems like a very good idea.

Don't know if he should return kicks or not. On the one hand, it does seem as if he ought to be very good at it - that whole having space thing again. On the other, he does need some plays off and Scarlett was at least good at this role last year. (#2 in Pac 12 in yds/return; #1 in the country in total kick return yards ... which may be a pretty meaningless stat)
Do kick off returners really suffer injury at a greater rate than running backs?
[/quote]

[TreesAndBirds]

“I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.”


Qwerty....Right. Returning a kick off to less than the 25 yard line costs your team yards, time ( if important) and risks injury. It should be negatively reflected in stats, not positively.

[TreesAndBirds]

“I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.”


Qwerty....Right. Returning a kick off to less than the 25 yard line costs your team yards, time ( if important) and risks injury. It should be negatively reflected in stats, not positively.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

“I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.”


Qwerty....Right. Returning a kick off to less than the 25 yard line costs your team yards, time ( if important) and risks injury. It should be negatively reflected in stats, not positively.

Surely that would depend on whether the kick was fielded in the end zone.

[ThePassionOfTheChryst]

“I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.”


Qwerty....Right. Returning a kick off to less than the 25 yard line costs your team yards, time ( if important) and risks injury. It should be negatively reflected in stats, not positively.

Surely that would depend on whether the kick was fielded in the end zone.

[washingtonismoney]

I've always thought the proper way to measure returners' effectiveness was pretty straightforward, so straightforward I'm surprised no one has done it: simply measure the percentage of available yardage gained. Better returners, obviously, get more. You'd have to adjust slightly in kick returners' case to deal with touchbacks (do those automatically count as 25%?) but for punt returners, the virtues are pretty obvious.

People generally rate punt returners by their average return, but I've always found that to be pretty deceptive. Let's say one punt returner has a 30 yard punt return over two games (and the rest are fair caught), while another has (we'll say) four 10 yard punt returns. Intuitively, the second one is making more valuable contributions, but average return stats would tend to promote the former player.

[washingtonismoney]

I've always thought the proper way to measure returners' effectiveness was pretty straightforward, so straightforward I'm surprised no one has done it: simply measure the percentage of available yardage gained. Better returners, obviously, get more. You'd have to adjust slightly in kick returners' case to deal with touchbacks (do those automatically count as 25%?) but for punt returners, the virtues are pretty obvious.

People generally rate punt returners by their average return, but I've always found that to be pretty deceptive. Let's say one punt returner has a 30 yard punt return over two games (and the rest are fair caught), while another has (we'll say) four 10 yard punt returns. Intuitively, the second one is making more valuable contributions, but average return stats would tend to promote the former player.

[TreesAndBirds]

[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=18429.msg221055#msg221055 date=1515717749]
“I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.”


Qwerty....Right. Returning a kick off to less than the 25 yard line costs your team yards, time ( if important) and risks injury. It should be negatively reflected in stats, not positively.

Surely that would depend on whether the kick was fielded in the end zone.
[/quote]

Good point. Yes.

[TreesAndBirds]

[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=18429.msg221055#msg221055 date=1515717749]
“I always wondered why all gross KOR yardage was added to the all-purpose total. It seems to me that net yardage past the 25 yd line would be more relevant.”


Qwerty....Right. Returning a kick off to less than the 25 yard line costs your team yards, time ( if important) and risks injury. It should be negatively reflected in stats, not positively.

Surely that would depend on whether the kick was fielded in the end zone.
[/quote]

Good point. Yes.

[JohnR34231]

Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

[JohnR34231]

Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

[OutsiderFan]

Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

Or maybe he will make a statement by saying nothing?

[OutsiderFan]

Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

Or maybe he will make a statement by saying nothing?

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=18429.msg221105#msg221105 date=1515765381]
Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

Or maybe he will make a statement by saying nothing?
[/quote]

No news would definitely be good news.
Hope he takes a cue from Jordan Belfort here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP3m22Kzu0k
(Warning, NSFW)

[JohnR34231]

[quote author=JPRI link=topic=18429.msg221105#msg221105 date=1515765381]
Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

Or maybe he will make a statement by saying nothing?
[/quote]

No news would definitely be good news.
Hope he takes a cue from Jordan Belfort here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP3m22Kzu0k
(Warning, NSFW)

[lex24]

His size will always limit his effectiveness as a blocker. CMac is an excellent blocker - for his size. For reasons only Shula can answer on Carolinas last drive vs NO he was kept in to block. Cam Jordan steamrolled him on the play that Newton was called for grounding. Mac had no chance - he couldn’t cut him as the tackle was whipped, but engaged, so he would have drawn a chop block penalty. I still can’t figure out what Shula was thinking.

I remain perplexed as to why Lovw wasn’t used more as a receiver out of the backfield. Obviously it’s in the playbook. We know that from Taylor and McCaffrey. Plus everything including the kitchen sink is in the playbook. Love had shown some ability as a receiver before.  To be successful in the NFL he has to be a threat catching the ball out of the backfield.

Whether it’s Love or someone else, incorporating the backs into the passing game should be an off season priority.

[quote author=MustardtheBallCarrier link=topic=18429.msg221031#msg221031 date=1515700871]
The interesting thing to me is that if Love comes back, to best help the team he would likely be used in the same role he was last season.  He played that role about as well as one could.  What more could he show running the ball?  Maybe adding weight and showing durability.

Is Shaw going to play Love on passing downs when there are much better pass blocking RB on the team?  Love can improve his technique but his size is what it is.  Is Shaw going to put Love in the slot or out wide when there are much better receiving threats on the team?  Is Shaw going to have Love return kicks when there are better choices from a ball security standpoint and those touches risk injury to the most critical offensive player?

First of all, my guess is that if Love is to return, it will not be primarily to improve his profile to the NFL.


Secondly, I see no reason at all for Love to come out on third down plays (he should come out from time to time, just not specifically third down plays).
His pass blocking isn't great but not atrocious. More importantly, I don't see any reason he cannot be effective as an outlet. Backs catching a dump off usually have at least a few steps of space around them, and having Love with some space seems like a very good idea.

Don't know if he should return kicks or not. On the one hand, it does seem as if he ought to be very good at it - that whole having space thing again. On the other, he does need some plays off and Scarlett was at least good at this role last year. (#2 in Pac 12 in yds/return; #1 in the country in total kick return yards ... which may be a pretty meaningless stat)
Do kick off returners really suffer injury at a greater rate than running backs?
[/quote]

[lex24]

His size will always limit his effectiveness as a blocker. CMac is an excellent blocker - for his size. For reasons only Shula can answer on Carolinas last drive vs NO he was kept in to block. Cam Jordan steamrolled him on the play that Newton was called for grounding. Mac had no chance - he couldn’t cut him as the tackle was whipped, but engaged, so he would have drawn a chop block penalty. I still can’t figure out what Shula was thinking.

I remain perplexed as to why Lovw wasn’t used more as a receiver out of the backfield. Obviously it’s in the playbook. We know that from Taylor and McCaffrey. Plus everything including the kitchen sink is in the playbook. Love had shown some ability as a receiver before.  To be successful in the NFL he has to be a threat catching the ball out of the backfield.

Whether it’s Love or someone else, incorporating the backs into the passing game should be an off season priority.

[quote author=MustardtheBallCarrier link=topic=18429.msg221031#msg221031 date=1515700871]
The interesting thing to me is that if Love comes back, to best help the team he would likely be used in the same role he was last season.  He played that role about as well as one could.  What more could he show running the ball?  Maybe adding weight and showing durability.

Is Shaw going to play Love on passing downs when there are much better pass blocking RB on the team?  Love can improve his technique but his size is what it is.  Is Shaw going to put Love in the slot or out wide when there are much better receiving threats on the team?  Is Shaw going to have Love return kicks when there are better choices from a ball security standpoint and those touches risk injury to the most critical offensive player?

First of all, my guess is that if Love is to return, it will not be primarily to improve his profile to the NFL.


Secondly, I see no reason at all for Love to come out on third down plays (he should come out from time to time, just not specifically third down plays).
His pass blocking isn't great but not atrocious. More importantly, I don't see any reason he cannot be effective as an outlet. Backs catching a dump off usually have at least a few steps of space around them, and having Love with some space seems like a very good idea.

Don't know if he should return kicks or not. On the one hand, it does seem as if he ought to be very good at it - that whole having space thing again. On the other, he does need some plays off and Scarlett was at least good at this role last year. (#2 in Pac 12 in yds/return; #1 in the country in total kick return yards ... which may be a pretty meaningless stat)
Do kick off returners really suffer injury at a greater rate than running backs?
[/quote]

[CTcard]

I remain perplexed as to why Lovw wasn’t used more as a receiver out of the backfield. Obviously it’s in the playbook. We know that from Taylor and McCaffrey. Plus everything including the kitchen sink is in the playbook. Love had shown some ability as a receiver before.  To be successful in the NFL he has to be a threat catching the ball out of the backfield.

Yes, it's obviously in the playbook.

Scarlett was used a little this way this year, and in actual routes not just emergency outlets. So, despite not being in for nearly as many plays, Scarlett had the same number of catches as Love and for five times as many yards.

I agree that for the good of the Stanford offense we need to make passes to the backs more of a threat, and Love needs to be a credible pass catcher if he wants to play a lot in NFL.

[CTcard]

I remain perplexed as to why Lovw wasn’t used more as a receiver out of the backfield. Obviously it’s in the playbook. We know that from Taylor and McCaffrey. Plus everything including the kitchen sink is in the playbook. Love had shown some ability as a receiver before.  To be successful in the NFL he has to be a threat catching the ball out of the backfield.

Yes, it's obviously in the playbook.

Scarlett was used a little this way this year, and in actual routes not just emergency outlets. So, despite not being in for nearly as many plays, Scarlett had the same number of catches as Love and for five times as many yards.

I agree that for the good of the Stanford offense we need to make passes to the backs more of a threat, and Love needs to be a credible pass catcher if he wants to play a lot in NFL.

[Hank 91]

Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

Even though I strongly believe that he's returning, I'll admit to getting a bit nervous when we saw those similarly crafted announcements from Phillips, Reid, and Meeks on consecutive days. It felt like the football department might have been orchestrating their releases and building towards the biggest news item. When nothing dropped on Wednesday, it felt like good news.

Also, remember Andrew Luck's "announcement"? I think he dropped a note with the SID saying something like, "You should probably let people know that I'm not leaving school." So maybe we'll get something like that.

[Hank 91]

Wonder what the deal is on Bryce, since the deadline is only three days away.
Either he is having a hard time making up his mind, or he has a flair for the dramatic, wanting to wait until the last minute.
IIRC he announced for Stanford on signing day, so maybe that's his MO.

Even though I strongly believe that he's returning, I'll admit to getting a bit nervous when we saw those similarly crafted announcements from Phillips, Reid, and Meeks on consecutive days. It felt like the football department might have been orchestrating their releases and building towards the biggest news item. When nothing dropped on Wednesday, it felt like good news.

Also, remember Andrew Luck's "announcement"? I think he dropped a note with the SID saying something like, "You should probably let people know that I'm not leaving school." So maybe we'll get something like that.

[FarmBoy]

Mel Kiper ranks a number of Stanford players highly at their positions:

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/mel-kipers-...d=52263598

RB: 2. * Bryce Love, Stanford
FB: 7. Marx
DT: 6. Philips
S: 4. Reid
K/P. 9. Bailey

[FarmBoy]

Mel Kiper ranks a number of Stanford players highly at their positions:

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/mel-kipers-...d=52263598

RB: 2. * Bryce Love, Stanford
FB: 7. Marx
DT: 6. Philips
S: 4. Reid
K/P. 9. Bailey

[BostonCard]

Here's Wilner's take:

https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status...3919412224

Doesn't really add much, but I suspect those people who think no news is good news should temper their expectations.

BC

[BostonCard]

Here's Wilner's take:

https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status...3919412224

Doesn't really add much, but I suspect those people who think no news is good news should temper their expectations.

BC

[Phogge]

Shanahan uses his FB effectively. Perhaps Marx can sign with the Niners and spend a year on the taxi squad.

[Phogge]

Shanahan uses his FB effectively. Perhaps Marx can sign with the Niners and spend a year on the taxi squad.

[winflop]

Here's Wilner's take:

https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status...3919412224

Doesn't really add much, but I suspect those people who think no news is good news should temper their expectations.

BC

In other words, like us he doesn't have a clue

[winflop]

Here's Wilner's take:

https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status...3919412224

Doesn't really add much, but I suspect those people who think no news is good news should temper their expectations.

BC

In other words, like us he doesn't have a clue

[AthleticsDynasty]

Remember when defensive back was an annual position of need?  In this 2009-Current Golden Age, it's amazing to see

- A steady stream of guys reach the pros ahead of schedule: Terrence Brown, Alex Carter, Ed Reynolds, now Meeks.
- The remaining group NFL DB's/Cardinal alums form a distinguished list: MT3, Sherman, Bademosi, Howell, Jordan Richards

Who am I missing?

I'm pretty sure Terrence Brown never even got to play in a preseason game

[AthleticsDynasty]

Remember when defensive back was an annual position of need?  In this 2009-Current Golden Age, it's amazing to see

- A steady stream of guys reach the pros ahead of schedule: Terrence Brown, Alex Carter, Ed Reynolds, now Meeks.
- The remaining group NFL DB's/Cardinal alums form a distinguished list: MT3, Sherman, Bademosi, Howell, Jordan Richards

Who am I missing?

I'm pretty sure Terrence Brown never even got to play in a preseason game

[lex24]

Shanahan is the most Walsh like offense in the NFL today. Not surprising given his lineage.

Shanahan uses his FB effectively. Perhaps Marx can sign with the Niners and spend a year on the taxi squad.

[lex24]

Shanahan is the most Walsh like offense in the NFL today. Not surprising given his lineage.

Shanahan uses his FB effectively. Perhaps Marx can sign with the Niners and spend a year on the taxi squad.

[PVTree]

Poster on another site says that he saw on ESPN's college football show a report that Love is returning.

I haven't seen that elsewhere, but have felt that he would return.

If true, it sets us up for next year, potentially being THE year.

Stacked offense everywhere. If the defensive line solidifies and gets pressure on the QB, our LBs (starters will be very good) and DBs (bend don't break) may be good enough to make a deep run.

[PVTree]

Poster on another site says that he saw on ESPN's college football show a report that Love is returning.

I haven't seen that elsewhere, but have felt that he would return.

If true, it sets us up for next year, potentially being THE year.

Stacked offense everywhere. If the defensive line solidifies and gets pressure on the QB, our LBs (starters will be very good) and DBs (bend don't break) may be good enough to make a deep run.

[Mick]

Poster on another site says that he saw on ESPN's college football show a report that Love is returning.

I haven't seen that elsewhere, but have felt that he would return.

If true, it sets us up for next year, potentially being THE year.

Stacked offense everywhere. If the defensive line solidifies and gets pressure on the QB, our LBs (starters will be very good) and DBs (bend don't break) may be good enough to makeep a run.

Why Love should return...

https://247sports.com/Article/2018-NFL-D...-113529047

[Mick]

Poster on another site says that he saw on ESPN's college football show a report that Love is returning.

I haven't seen that elsewhere, but have felt that he would return.

If true, it sets us up for next year, potentially being THE year.

Stacked offense everywhere. If the defensive line solidifies and gets pressure on the QB, our LBs (starters will be very good) and DBs (bend don't break) may be good enough to makeep a run.

Why Love should return...

https://247sports.com/Article/2018-NFL-D...-113529047

[Hurlburt88]

Feels like Offense should be strong this coming year for many reasons stated in many other posts.  The early exits on defense obviously give pessimism, yet maybe there is a chance for some young talent to step up and surprise us

[Hurlburt88]

Feels like Offense should be strong this coming year for many reasons stated in many other posts.  The early exits on defense obviously give pessimism, yet maybe there is a chance for some young talent to step up and surprise us