[TreesAndBirds]

Pac12 has biggest drop of power5

Reasons...

Technology (easier to watch at home)
Students less interested
More schools in FBS diluting quality and reducing average stadium size.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...n-34-years

[TreesAndBirds]

Pac12 has biggest drop of power5

Reasons...

Technology (easier to watch at home)
Students less interested
More schools in FBS diluting quality and reducing average stadium size.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...n-34-years

[washingtonismoney]

Probably the proliferation of boring, unimaginative offenses as the David Shaw coaching tree expands.

[washingtonismoney]

Probably the proliferation of boring, unimaginative offenses as the David Shaw coaching tree expands.

[BostonCard]

Probably the proliferation of boring, unimaginative offenses as the David Shaw coaching tree expands.

I had a nice one-liner along these lines ready to write, but you beat me to the punch, and yours is much pithier as well.  Hat tip to you sir.

BC

[BostonCard]

Probably the proliferation of boring, unimaginative offenses as the David Shaw coaching tree expands.

I had a nice one-liner along these lines ready to write, but you beat me to the punch, and yours is much pithier as well.  Hat tip to you sir.

BC

[82lsju]

5 of the "top 10" declines have been in the last 6 seasons.

[82lsju]

5 of the "top 10" declines have been in the last 6 seasons.

[OutsiderFan]

Let's be real. Ticket prices are inelastic. Most schools make you be a donor for the privilege of buying season tickets. The secondary ticket market (Stubhub) demonstrates how we live in an age where dynamic ticket pricing has to be the model.  I get why sports operations don't necessarily like this.  Season tickets are the foundation for their budgets (I'm including Power 5 football as professional sports here), but you can't ignore market realities either.

I remember in December, for the Niners game against Tennessee, the week before the game you could get in the stadium for I think it was $14.  Face value on the tickets has to be what, $80?  You can see the same thing for college football tickets, with secondary prices lower than the face value on the ticket in many instances.

Moreover, we have a continual stratification of income and wealth.  The hardcore fans have traditionally been the "working class." It's easy to see how the "premium seats" and donations for them may have greater price elasticity because those who can afford it have more to spend.  It's not the case at the lower end of the income ladder, with people who earn their income off hourly wages. Even if the upper bowl seats for the proletariat are say $20/game, people in that range still aren't going to games because they can stay home and watch on TV, and save a couple hundred bucks that can be spent on more essential things.

So, let's see what the revenue numbers are before drawing any conclusions about attendance being a proxy for popularity.  Because if attendance is falling and revenue isn't, attendance attrition is just a reflection of societal income inequality.

[OutsiderFan]

Let's be real. Ticket prices are inelastic. Most schools make you be a donor for the privilege of buying season tickets. The secondary ticket market (Stubhub) demonstrates how we live in an age where dynamic ticket pricing has to be the model.  I get why sports operations don't necessarily like this.  Season tickets are the foundation for their budgets (I'm including Power 5 football as professional sports here), but you can't ignore market realities either.

I remember in December, for the Niners game against Tennessee, the week before the game you could get in the stadium for I think it was $14.  Face value on the tickets has to be what, $80?  You can see the same thing for college football tickets, with secondary prices lower than the face value on the ticket in many instances.

Moreover, we have a continual stratification of income and wealth.  The hardcore fans have traditionally been the "working class." It's easy to see how the "premium seats" and donations for them may have greater price elasticity because those who can afford it have more to spend.  It's not the case at the lower end of the income ladder, with people who earn their income off hourly wages. Even if the upper bowl seats for the proletariat are say $20/game, people in that range still aren't going to games because they can stay home and watch on TV, and save a couple hundred bucks that can be spent on more essential things.

So, let's see what the revenue numbers are before drawing any conclusions about attendance being a proxy for popularity.  Because if attendance is falling and revenue isn't, attendance attrition is just a reflection of societal income inequality.

[ATLCard]

I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

[ATLCard]

I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

[cctop]

Even if the upper bowl seats for the proletariat are say $20/game, people in that range still aren't going to games because they can stay home and watch on TV, and save a couple hundred bucks that can be spent on more essential things.

So, let's see what the revenue numbers are before drawing any conclusions about attendance being a proxy for popularity.  Because if attendance is falling and revenue isn't, attendance attrition is just a reflection of societal income inequality.

For me, attending live pro sports events as well as live concerts has become a special event rather than a regular activity.  That has a lot to do with cost, or more correctly with value.

My kid wants to go to a Warriors game.  Since he's never been before I want to get seats in the lower bowl.  It's hard to find tickets below $200 each.  Seats that I would consider good start at about $300 each.  I can't believe some people pay that much for every game.

Meanwhile, for live music tickets to a stadium concert regularly go for $150-$250 nowadays.  It used to be that bands toured to sell their music, but now with the internet bands seem to play their music online for cheap or free in order to sell live tickets.

[cctop]

Even if the upper bowl seats for the proletariat are say $20/game, people in that range still aren't going to games because they can stay home and watch on TV, and save a couple hundred bucks that can be spent on more essential things.

So, let's see what the revenue numbers are before drawing any conclusions about attendance being a proxy for popularity.  Because if attendance is falling and revenue isn't, attendance attrition is just a reflection of societal income inequality.

For me, attending live pro sports events as well as live concerts has become a special event rather than a regular activity.  That has a lot to do with cost, or more correctly with value.

My kid wants to go to a Warriors game.  Since he's never been before I want to get seats in the lower bowl.  It's hard to find tickets below $200 each.  Seats that I would consider good start at about $300 each.  I can't believe some people pay that much for every game.

Meanwhile, for live music tickets to a stadium concert regularly go for $150-$250 nowadays.  It used to be that bands toured to sell their music, but now with the internet bands seem to play their music online for cheap or free in order to sell live tickets.

[82lsju]

So, let's see what the revenue numbers are before drawing any conclusions about attendance being a proxy for popularity.  Because if attendance is falling and revenue isn't, attendance attrition is just a reflection of societal income inequality.

well looking at the last two five Stanford AD annual reports I could find the relevant revenue buckets (there are others)

                  2015-16      2014-15    2013-14      2012-13    2011-12
football gate $14.2m          $13.2m        $13.2m        $7.3m      $9.7m
other gate      $3.3m            $3.6m          $3.6m        $3.7m      $4.3m
broadcast    $19.9m          $17.5m        $17.5m      $16.0m      $9.8m
NCAA/Pac12  $7.9m            $4.8m        $4.8m        $3.8m      $5.2m

adding gifts since at least some of it is tied to premium seats

Buck/
Cardinal gifts  $10.3m      $12.1m        $12.1m        $9.6m      $9.2m

other gifts        $2.3m          NA              NA            $2.2m      $3.1m

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

[82lsju]

So, let's see what the revenue numbers are before drawing any conclusions about attendance being a proxy for popularity.  Because if attendance is falling and revenue isn't, attendance attrition is just a reflection of societal income inequality.

well looking at the last two five Stanford AD annual reports I could find the relevant revenue buckets (there are others)

                  2015-16      2014-15    2013-14      2012-13    2011-12
football gate $14.2m          $13.2m        $13.2m        $7.3m      $9.7m
other gate      $3.3m            $3.6m          $3.6m        $3.7m      $4.3m
broadcast    $19.9m          $17.5m        $17.5m      $16.0m      $9.8m
NCAA/Pac12  $7.9m            $4.8m        $4.8m        $3.8m      $5.2m

adding gifts since at least some of it is tied to premium seats

Buck/
Cardinal gifts  $10.3m      $12.1m        $12.1m        $9.6m      $9.2m

other gifts        $2.3m          NA              NA            $2.2m      $3.1m

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

https://stanford_ftp.sidearmsports.com/p...report.pdf

[BostonCard]

I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?

BC

[BostonCard]

I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?

BC

[CompSci87]

[quote author=ATLcard link=topic=18736.msg223989#msg223989 date=1518714738]
I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?
[/quote]

I think ATLcard was joking.

A point suggested by this sarcasm is that people like to blame anything that seems bad on anything they dislike, regardless of whether there is evidence or if the assertion is even testable at all.

[CompSci87]

[quote author=ATLcard link=topic=18736.msg223989#msg223989 date=1518714738]
I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?
[/quote]

I think ATLcard was joking.

A point suggested by this sarcasm is that people like to blame anything that seems bad on anything they dislike, regardless of whether there is evidence or if the assertion is even testable at all.

[BostonCard]

I think so too, but the internet has gotten to the point we’re sarcasm is indistinguishable from certain political views.

BC

[BostonCard]

I think so too, but the internet has gotten to the point we’re sarcasm is indistinguishable from certain political views.

BC

[2006alum]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18736.msg224004#msg224004 date=1518724983]
[quote author=ATLcard link=topic=18736.msg223989#msg223989 date=1518714738]
I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?
[/quote]

I think ATLcard was joking.

A point suggested by this sarcasm is that people like to blame anything that seems bad on anything they dislike, regardless of whether there is evidence or if the assertion is even testable at all.
[/quote]

That being said, the fact that college football is also showing declining popularity suggests that some of the NFL's recent woes may be unrelated to the anthem issues, since I don't think there's been much of that at the college level.

[2006alum]

[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18736.msg224004#msg224004 date=1518724983]
[quote author=ATLcard link=topic=18736.msg223989#msg223989 date=1518714738]
I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?
[/quote]

I think ATLcard was joking.

A point suggested by this sarcasm is that people like to blame anything that seems bad on anything they dislike, regardless of whether there is evidence or if the assertion is even testable at all.
[/quote]

That being said, the fact that college football is also showing declining popularity suggests that some of the NFL's recent woes may be unrelated to the anthem issues, since I don't think there's been much of that at the college level.

[Snorlax94]

Yes, agree with BC, 2006 and CS87, and would extend “whether there is evidence...” comment to the point that people say these things (it must be Kaepernick) even when the evidence *contradicts* their statements.

As to the original issue of declining attendance, although I think wealth and income inequality is one of the most important problems around, that wouldn’t be my guess for the root cause of this.

Some of the poorest parts of America have the highest attendance. Michigan leads the country woth over 111,000 a game.

My guess is that the biggest cause, aside from technology (making the home experience better, streaming binge watching shifting away from live viewing, and many channels leading to more niche media interests) is the decline of the primacy of football and sports in American culture, and more people in SEC and Big10 country attend because, there, football is more central to their community and social life.

I remember footage two years ago showing disinterested fans in the stands. One spouse was reading a newspaper. And I thought, that could be my wife. She isn’t interested in football, and football is not central to most of our social circles. Our parties usually are not tailgaters or viewing parties (unless I am hosting them) and our group trips are not to Bowl Games (unless I am organizing them).

On top of that, Pac12 after dark on weekdays doesn’t help. A lack of recent championships (by anyone) doesn’t help. A lack of NFL championships doesn’t help.

Coach Shaw, by the way, is a definite plus in my social circles. People are more excited to support a team led by an alum who represents the university well and who is recognized nationally as a coach with high character.

[Snorlax94]

Yes, agree with BC, 2006 and CS87, and would extend “whether there is evidence...” comment to the point that people say these things (it must be Kaepernick) even when the evidence *contradicts* their statements.

As to the original issue of declining attendance, although I think wealth and income inequality is one of the most important problems around, that wouldn’t be my guess for the root cause of this.

Some of the poorest parts of America have the highest attendance. Michigan leads the country woth over 111,000 a game.

My guess is that the biggest cause, aside from technology (making the home experience better, streaming binge watching shifting away from live viewing, and many channels leading to more niche media interests) is the decline of the primacy of football and sports in American culture, and more people in SEC and Big10 country attend because, there, football is more central to their community and social life.

I remember footage two years ago showing disinterested fans in the stands. One spouse was reading a newspaper. And I thought, that could be my wife. She isn’t interested in football, and football is not central to most of our social circles. Our parties usually are not tailgaters or viewing parties (unless I am hosting them) and our group trips are not to Bowl Games (unless I am organizing them).

On top of that, Pac12 after dark on weekdays doesn’t help. A lack of recent championships (by anyone) doesn’t help. A lack of NFL championships doesn’t help.

Coach Shaw, by the way, is a definite plus in my social circles. People are more excited to support a team led by an alum who represents the university well and who is recognized nationally as a coach with high character.

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=18736.msg224018#msg224018 date=1518729243]
[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18736.msg224004#msg224004 date=1518724983]
[quote author=ATLcard link=topic=18736.msg223989#msg223989 date=1518714738]
I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?
[/quote]

I think ATLcard was joking.

A point suggested by this sarcasm is that people like to blame anything that seems bad on anything they dislike, regardless of whether there is evidence or if the assertion is even testable at all.
[/quote]

That being said, the fact that college football is also showing declining popularity suggests that some of the NFL's recent woes may be unrelated to the anthem issues, since I don't think there's been much of that at the college level.
[/quote]

That is because college players are usually in the locker room, not on the field, for the national anthem.

In the article above we should also note the impact cited from declining student attendance at games.  Presumably there are factors other than cost of bringing your family or erratic game times for them. 

The article also lists schools that are reducing the capacity of their stadiums to accommodate smaller crowds and create demand that can justify higher ticket prices. Not listed in the article - U.SC which is reducing the capacity at the Coliseum from 93K to 77K as part of an overall stadium renovation. The attendance decline would seem to be structural and permanent.

[Spiny_Norman]

[quote author=CompSci87 link=topic=18736.msg224018#msg224018 date=1518729243]
[quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18736.msg224004#msg224004 date=1518724983]
[quote author=ATLcard link=topic=18736.msg223989#msg223989 date=1518714738]
I heard the attendance drop was because players aren't standing for the anthem

Is that an issue for college football?
[/quote]

I think ATLcard was joking.

A point suggested by this sarcasm is that people like to blame anything that seems bad on anything they dislike, regardless of whether there is evidence or if the assertion is even testable at all.
[/quote]

That being said, the fact that college football is also showing declining popularity suggests that some of the NFL's recent woes may be unrelated to the anthem issues, since I don't think there's been much of that at the college level.
[/quote]

That is because college players are usually in the locker room, not on the field, for the national anthem.

In the article above we should also note the impact cited from declining student attendance at games.  Presumably there are factors other than cost of bringing your family or erratic game times for them. 

The article also lists schools that are reducing the capacity of their stadiums to accommodate smaller crowds and create demand that can justify higher ticket prices. Not listed in the article - U.SC which is reducing the capacity at the Coliseum from 93K to 77K as part of an overall stadium renovation. The attendance decline would seem to be structural and permanent.

[ATLCard]

I was joking of course.  With that said I got more thoughtful analysis of reasons for declining football attendance (college version) in this thread than I have seen from the national media and politicians during the entire last season.

[ATLCard]

I was joking of course.  With that said I got more thoughtful analysis of reasons for declining football attendance (college version) in this thread than I have seen from the national media and politicians during the entire last season.

[ADPATERSON]

For us Boomers, going to the game is big time NOSTALGIA and seeing friends and some classmates. 
We are older now.  The couch is more alluring with a 4K TV, rewind, and surround sound and another round at hand.
And more of us get some buddies together to watch in that nice den with a bar.  We get to select who we sit with.
We go to Big Game and NDam or an LA school, not six games. 

Millennials are not filling the Boomer void; too many other things going on.  Multiple social channels. 
Higher event prices (tickets, parking, food, hassle) amplify all of the above.  More decline ahead. 
More Boomers are in their 60s and 70s now. 

[ADPATERSON]

For us Boomers, going to the game is big time NOSTALGIA and seeing friends and some classmates. 
We are older now.  The couch is more alluring with a 4K TV, rewind, and surround sound and another round at hand.
And more of us get some buddies together to watch in that nice den with a bar.  We get to select who we sit with.
We go to Big Game and NDam or an LA school, not six games. 

Millennials are not filling the Boomer void; too many other things going on.  Multiple social channels. 
Higher event prices (tickets, parking, food, hassle) amplify all of the above.  More decline ahead. 
More Boomers are in their 60s and 70s now.