[JustAnotherFan]

SMDH. You don't even know what he did.

He did enough that we're here talking about it, as is the national press.

He sure did. And you still don't know what he did.

[JustAnotherFan]

SMDH. You don't even know what he did.

He did enough that we're here talking about it, as is the national press.

He sure did. And you still don't know what he did.

[OutsiderFan]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1415430135323496451[/tweet]

[OutsiderFan]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1415430135323496451[/tweet]

[BostonCard]

I'm glad nobody was (physically) hurt, though I am sure it was a traumatic situation for everyone involved.  I hope Sherman gets some help.

BC

[BostonCard]

I'm glad nobody was (physically) hurt, though I am sure it was a traumatic situation for everyone involved.  I hope Sherman gets some help.

BC

[OutsiderFan]

I'm glad nobody was (physically) hurt, though I am sure it was a traumatic situation for everyone involved.  I hope Sherman gets some help.

BC

The context painted from that call sure has vibes of mental illness to me. Thankfully, no gun or other weapon was involved.

[OutsiderFan]

I'm glad nobody was (physically) hurt, though I am sure it was a traumatic situation for everyone involved.  I hope Sherman gets some help.

BC

The context painted from that call sure has vibes of mental illness to me. Thankfully, no gun or other weapon was involved.

[jonnyss]

Does "hit and run" necessarily involve a person? Could hit and run mean running over a hydrant, damaging it, and taking off? This could then be resolved monetarily.

[twitter] https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/...8014212103 [/twitter]

Looks like it did not involve anyone else.

i once hit a concrete pillar backing out of a spot in a parking garage. my fender was damaged. the concrete pillar? - not. it did not cross my mind  - at the time or since - to wait for police, that leaving would constitute a "hit-and-run."

---

Per, Pro Football Report: Typically, the notion of “burglary domestic violence” refers to someone entering or refusing to leave a house or dwelling within the context of a domestic dispute. For example, someone who gets locked out of a house during a argument with a spouse or significant other and then breaks in potentially has committed “burglary domestic violence.

if i understand the audio recording of his wife's call correctly, he was trying to leave the house, rather than enter, and his wife was asking him not to because he was drunk. i note her trying, without success, to ask the dispatcher to tell responding officers that he was not armed and please don't shoot him.

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

[jonnyss]

Does "hit and run" necessarily involve a person? Could hit and run mean running over a hydrant, damaging it, and taking off? This could then be resolved monetarily.

[twitter] https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/...8014212103 [/twitter]

Looks like it did not involve anyone else.

i once hit a concrete pillar backing out of a spot in a parking garage. my fender was damaged. the concrete pillar? - not. it did not cross my mind  - at the time or since - to wait for police, that leaving would constitute a "hit-and-run."

---

Per, Pro Football Report: Typically, the notion of “burglary domestic violence” refers to someone entering or refusing to leave a house or dwelling within the context of a domestic dispute. For example, someone who gets locked out of a house during a argument with a spouse or significant other and then breaks in potentially has committed “burglary domestic violence.

if i understand the audio recording of his wife's call correctly, he was trying to leave the house, rather than enter, and his wife was asking him not to because he was drunk. i note her trying, without success, to ask the dispatcher to tell responding officers that he was not armed and please don't shoot him.

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

[Phogge]

Another 40 year decision perhaps.

[Phogge]

Another 40 year decision perhaps.

[82lsju]

more details here

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/sport...f413L0O6lc

[82lsju]

more details here

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/sport...f413L0O6lc

[chrisk]

more details here

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/sport...f413L0O6lc

It’s incredible that he made it most of the 25 miles to his in-laws driving in that condition.

[chrisk]

more details here

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/sport...f413L0O6lc

It’s incredible that he made it most of the 25 miles to his in-laws driving in that condition.

[Red80]

Another 40 year decision perhaps.

It'll be interesting to see if those Sherman 9 Jerseys will still be on the rack at the Track House.

[Red80]

Another 40 year decision perhaps.

It'll be interesting to see if those Sherman 9 Jerseys will still be on the rack at the Track House.

[OutsiderFan]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

[OutsiderFan]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

[crackpot]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

[crackpot]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

[lex24]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

We know next to nothing nothing about the situation.   Period.  As for the cops, it is so damn easy to sit in the comfort of your living room and say….  They have to respond. In real time. With heated situations.  And domestic issues are often extremely dangerous.  Social workers aren’t equipped to handle those. A lot of cops probably aren’t either. But there sure are a boatload of  folks sitting on their butts that know the answers….

And while I’m responding to your post, I’m not directing this at you.  It’s a national issue.

---

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

Of course it is.  But his wife called 911. Said he was fighting and threatening to kill himself. She asked the police to come. She’s said he would fight them, but had no weapons. The police came out. No one got hurt. How the hell did the police “escalate” this? They deserve praise, not condemnation. What would a social worker have done? Talked nicely. Yeah, that works with a violent drunk threatening harm. The call for social workers in situations like this will end quickly. Cause they aren’t equipped to handle violent conflicts. Which is what this appears to have been.

Why is anybody’s guess. But that’s for later. The call at the time was to diffuse the situation and make sure no one got hurt. Which is what the cops did.

---

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

Actually, she sounded scared and wanted the cops to help.  Which they did.  The dispatcher was curt. But she needed info.  She got it.  I’m trying to figure out what the police did wrong here. We’re they supposed to say - oh wait, he went to Stanford. Never mind…..

[lex24]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

We know next to nothing nothing about the situation.   Period.  As for the cops, it is so damn easy to sit in the comfort of your living room and say….  They have to respond. In real time. With heated situations.  And domestic issues are often extremely dangerous.  Social workers aren’t equipped to handle those. A lot of cops probably aren’t either. But there sure are a boatload of  folks sitting on their butts that know the answers….

And while I’m responding to your post, I’m not directing this at you.  It’s a national issue.

---

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

Of course it is.  But his wife called 911. Said he was fighting and threatening to kill himself. She asked the police to come. She’s said he would fight them, but had no weapons. The police came out. No one got hurt. How the hell did the police “escalate” this? They deserve praise, not condemnation. What would a social worker have done? Talked nicely. Yeah, that works with a violent drunk threatening harm. The call for social workers in situations like this will end quickly. Cause they aren’t equipped to handle violent conflicts. Which is what this appears to have been.

Why is anybody’s guess. But that’s for later. The call at the time was to diffuse the situation and make sure no one got hurt. Which is what the cops did.

---

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

Actually, she sounded scared and wanted the cops to help.  Which they did.  The dispatcher was curt. But she needed info.  She got it.  I’m trying to figure out what the police did wrong here. We’re they supposed to say - oh wait, he went to Stanford. Never mind…..

[BostonCard]

Hard to know exactly what happened from this:

Police said that they talked amiably with Sherman and that one officer knew Sherman from a prior job, where the officer worked as a valet. But when the officers tried to place Sherman under arrest, he walked away from them, according to Lowe. Sherman got into a physical confrontation with police officers and a police dog was deployed to help subdue him, Lowe said.

And it is hard to know what would have happened in an alternate universe where a social worker comes to talk to him instead of the police.  If you want to ensure that he 1) is no longer a threat to anyone else and 2) doesn't hurt himself, arrest is the *easiest* option, but is it the best?  I honestly don't know how Sherman (or anyone else) would have reacted without the threat of arrest.  Would de-escalation have been possible?  Could it have worked?  Or would Sherman have ignored the social worker and walked off if he didn't want to talk to them?

Honestly, we don't have enough information here.

BC

[BostonCard]

Hard to know exactly what happened from this:

Police said that they talked amiably with Sherman and that one officer knew Sherman from a prior job, where the officer worked as a valet. But when the officers tried to place Sherman under arrest, he walked away from them, according to Lowe. Sherman got into a physical confrontation with police officers and a police dog was deployed to help subdue him, Lowe said.

And it is hard to know what would have happened in an alternate universe where a social worker comes to talk to him instead of the police.  If you want to ensure that he 1) is no longer a threat to anyone else and 2) doesn't hurt himself, arrest is the *easiest* option, but is it the best?  I honestly don't know how Sherman (or anyone else) would have reacted without the threat of arrest.  Would de-escalation have been possible?  Could it have worked?  Or would Sherman have ignored the social worker and walked off if he didn't want to talk to them?

Honestly, we don't have enough information here.

BC

[Red80]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

We know next to nothing nothing about the situation.   Period.  As for the cops, it is so damn easy to sit in the comfort of your living room and say….  They have to respond. In real time. With heated situations.  And domestic issues are often extremely dangerous.  Social workers aren’t equipped to handle those. A lot of cops probably aren’t either. But there sure are a boatload of  folks sitting on their butts that know the answers….

And while I’m responding to your post, I’m not directing this at you.  It’s a national issue.

---

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

Of course it is.  But you have no fricking clue what the situation was.

As someone who experienced the frightening behavior of a drunken, violent family member on multiple occasions, I thank God and the police who responded to our domestic dramas. There's no way that a social worker, mental health specialist, or alcohol counselor would have been able to handle  our situation. It probably would have ended in tragedy. Our family member did eventually receive the help that they needed, but at the time of their out-of-control behavior, physical restraint, force, and cuffs were necessary.

[Red80]

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

We just listened, read the article. Heartbreaking. Ashley certainly sounded like she was fearing for her husband and dreaded having to make that call.

If those cops were as bad as the dispatcher, Sherm is lucky to have lived. There was no need for them to escalate this, he obviously needed some mental health assistance. Damnit.

We know next to nothing nothing about the situation.   Period.  As for the cops, it is so damn easy to sit in the comfort of your living room and say….  They have to respond. In real time. With heated situations.  And domestic issues are often extremely dangerous.  Social workers aren’t equipped to handle those. A lot of cops probably aren’t either. But there sure are a boatload of  folks sitting on their butts that know the answers….

And while I’m responding to your post, I’m not directing this at you.  It’s a national issue.

---

to me this sounds like one of those situations for which communities are asking for trained social service or mental health response teams instead of police.

EXACTLY my thinking.

Of course it is.  But you have no fricking clue what the situation was.

As someone who experienced the frightening behavior of a drunken, violent family member on multiple occasions, I thank God and the police who responded to our domestic dramas. There's no way that a social worker, mental health specialist, or alcohol counselor would have been able to handle  our situation. It probably would have ended in tragedy. Our family member did eventually receive the help that they needed, but at the time of their out-of-control behavior, physical restraint, force, and cuffs were necessary.

[lex24]

Hard to know exactly what happened from this:

Police said that they talked amiably with Sherman and that one officer knew Sherman from a prior job, where the officer worked as a valet. But when the officers tried to place Sherman under arrest, he walked away from them, according to Lowe. Sherman got into a physical confrontation with police officers and a police dog was deployed to help subdue him, Lowe said.

And it is hard to know what would have happened in an alternate universe where a social worker comes to talk to him instead of the police.  If you want to ensure that he 1) is no longer a threat to anyone else and 2) doesn't hurt himself, arrest is the *easiest* option, but is it the best?  I honestly don't know how Sherman (or anyone else) would have reacted without the threat of arrest.  Would de-escalation have been possible?  Could it have worked?  Or would Sherman have ignored the social worker and walked off if he didn't want to talk to them?

Honestly, we don't have enough information here.

BC

True.  But what galls me are the statements that the police “escalated “ the situation.  How?  Arresting him not only protected those he was threatening, it also protected him. 

I like Sherman.  A lot.  He’s a thoughtful advocate for positions he takes.  An engaging guy, by all accounts.  Obviously something has gone wrong.  He now will have the opportunity to get help.  We should be thankful for the police response in this situation.

[lex24]

Hard to know exactly what happened from this:

Police said that they talked amiably with Sherman and that one officer knew Sherman from a prior job, where the officer worked as a valet. But when the officers tried to place Sherman under arrest, he walked away from them, according to Lowe. Sherman got into a physical confrontation with police officers and a police dog was deployed to help subdue him, Lowe said.

And it is hard to know what would have happened in an alternate universe where a social worker comes to talk to him instead of the police.  If you want to ensure that he 1) is no longer a threat to anyone else and 2) doesn't hurt himself, arrest is the *easiest* option, but is it the best?  I honestly don't know how Sherman (or anyone else) would have reacted without the threat of arrest.  Would de-escalation have been possible?  Could it have worked?  Or would Sherman have ignored the social worker and walked off if he didn't want to talk to them?

Honestly, we don't have enough information here.

BC

True.  But what galls me are the statements that the police “escalated “ the situation.  How?  Arresting him not only protected those he was threatening, it also protected him. 

I like Sherman.  A lot.  He’s a thoughtful advocate for positions he takes.  An engaging guy, by all accounts.  Obviously something has gone wrong.  He now will have the opportunity to get help.  We should be thankful for the police response in this situation.

[DC 86]

We should be thankful for the police response in this situation.

Indeed.

[DC 86]

We should be thankful for the police response in this situation.

Indeed.

[Goose]

And it is hard to know what would have happened in an alternate universe where a social worker comes to talk to him instead of the police.  If you want to ensure that he 1) is no longer a threat to anyone else and 2) doesn't hurt himself, arrest is the *easiest* option, but is it the best?  I honestly don't know how Sherman (or anyone else) would have reacted without the threat of arrest.  Would de-escalation have been possible?  Could it have worked?  Or would Sherman have ignored the social worker and walked off if he didn't want to talk to them?


Honestly, we don't have enough information here.



BC

It may not be the best option, but it is the ONLY option. It is the law. The laws have been changed so that in the case of domestic violence, the police MUST arrest the perpetrator, no matter what the current situation may be. These changes in the law happened because in too many cases the police arrived, talked to all the parties, got things calmed down, and then left. Later in the evening somebody ended up dead or badly injured. The public was outraged and the legislatures responded. I have personal knowledge of one case (where we bailed out the accused) where he and his girlfriend had gone to the ER the next day to get her sprained wrist looked at. Obviously things were smoothed over by that point. He was arrested basically on the spot. Everybody in the ER was apologizing, but for domestic battery, there is no other option. Turn the perp in and he will be arrested. Period.

[Goose]

And it is hard to know what would have happened in an alternate universe where a social worker comes to talk to him instead of the police.  If you want to ensure that he 1) is no longer a threat to anyone else and 2) doesn't hurt himself, arrest is the *easiest* option, but is it the best?  I honestly don't know how Sherman (or anyone else) would have reacted without the threat of arrest.  Would de-escalation have been possible?  Could it have worked?  Or would Sherman have ignored the social worker and walked off if he didn't want to talk to them?


Honestly, we don't have enough information here.



BC

It may not be the best option, but it is the ONLY option. It is the law. The laws have been changed so that in the case of domestic violence, the police MUST arrest the perpetrator, no matter what the current situation may be. These changes in the law happened because in too many cases the police arrived, talked to all the parties, got things calmed down, and then left. Later in the evening somebody ended up dead or badly injured. The public was outraged and the legislatures responded. I have personal knowledge of one case (where we bailed out the accused) where he and his girlfriend had gone to the ER the next day to get her sprained wrist looked at. Obviously things were smoothed over by that point. He was arrested basically on the spot. Everybody in the ER was apologizing, but for domestic battery, there is no other option. Turn the perp in and he will be arrested. Period.

[OutsiderFan]

Without speculating on the Sherman incident specifically, I'd appreciate someone who might have some insight into incidences like this being markers for mental illness.

- Someone who has "never done anything like this" before
- Gets drunk and belligerent
- Threatens to kill themself (not others)

It just seems to me based on what I have understood, that this would fit the pattern of someone having a mental illness. It sounds like what would happen when someone is off medication that keeps them chemically balanced.

What else might cause someone to "lose it" like this who has no history of such behavior? Again, I'm not trying to speculate on Sherman's situation, just wanting to educate myself about a scenario like this in general.

[OutsiderFan]

Without speculating on the Sherman incident specifically, I'd appreciate someone who might have some insight into incidences like this being markers for mental illness.

- Someone who has "never done anything like this" before
- Gets drunk and belligerent
- Threatens to kill themself (not others)

It just seems to me based on what I have understood, that this would fit the pattern of someone having a mental illness. It sounds like what would happen when someone is off medication that keeps them chemically balanced.

What else might cause someone to "lose it" like this who has no history of such behavior? Again, I'm not trying to speculate on Sherman's situation, just wanting to educate myself about a scenario like this in general.

[CowboyIndian]

He sure did. And you still don't know what he did.

Whatever he did, I'm betting he's wishing he didn't.

[CowboyIndian]

He sure did. And you still don't know what he did.

Whatever he did, I'm betting he's wishing he didn't.

[needle]

After listening to the audio, my first thought is that this is....banal.

Sorry, that’s the way I see it. I suspect Sherm will live a long and boring life, with or without therapy.

Not everyone is a prince. And all non-princes are not paupers.

[needle]

After listening to the audio, my first thought is that this is....banal.

Sorry, that’s the way I see it. I suspect Sherm will live a long and boring life, with or without therapy.

Not everyone is a prince. And all non-princes are not paupers.