[Row80Critic]

My family and I had recurring issues with the Guest Services people this year at football games.  It was a different person each time but the same theme, i.e., we didn't 'look handicapped enough' to sit in the accessible row Y (despite having seasons tickets for these seats, and over half a century of season tickets in general).  Last night was the probably the worst in terms of objectively inappropriate behavior. I'll spare the gory details, but it started with 'move along, these seats are for the handicapped' and went downhill from there. Chris Dorst and other supervisors all say the right things when involved, but then the same thing keeps happening.  We're at a crossroads in terms of what to do -- give up and stop going, get non- accessible seats and likely leave some out, shut up and take it, try to escalate inside or outside the University, etc.  So thought it would be useful to see if it's a systemic issue or unique to us?

[Row80Critic]

My family and I had recurring issues with the Guest Services people this year at football games.  It was a different person each time but the same theme, i.e., we didn't 'look handicapped enough' to sit in the accessible row Y (despite having seasons tickets for these seats, and over half a century of season tickets in general).  Last night was the probably the worst in terms of objectively inappropriate behavior. I'll spare the gory details, but it started with 'move along, these seats are for the handicapped' and went downhill from there. Chris Dorst and other supervisors all say the right things when involved, but then the same thing keeps happening.  We're at a crossroads in terms of what to do -- give up and stop going, get non- accessible seats and likely leave some out, shut up and take it, try to escalate inside or outside the University, etc.  So thought it would be useful to see if it's a systemic issue or unique to us?

[BobK]

Talk to Chris directly. When he took over he made big user friendly changes in attitude. Sadly I hear you. The “I’m in charge you aren’t” attitude is back with some.

[BobK]

Talk to Chris directly. When he took over he made big user friendly changes in attitude. Sadly I hear you. The “I’m in charge you aren’t” attitude is back with some.

[Row80Critic]

1701016482[/url]']
Talk to Chris directly.  When he took over he made big user friendly changes in attitude.  Sadly I hear you.  The “I’m in charge you aren’t” attitude is back with some.

Thanks, I have. He's always great, but then it's the same thing week after week.

[Row80Critic]

1701016482[/url]']
Talk to Chris directly.  When he took over he made big user friendly changes in attitude.  Sadly I hear you.  The “I’m in charge you aren’t” attitude is back with some.

Thanks, I have. He's always great, but then it's the same thing week after week.

[Row80Critic]

1701016482[/url]']
Talk to Chris directly.  When he took over he made big user friendly changes in attitude.  Sadly I hear you.  The “I’m in charge you aren’t” attitude is back with some.

Thanks, I have. He's always great, but then it's the same thing week after week.

After seeing the poll results so far, I’ve been mulling this a bit and suspect the heart of the problem is that (1) the University is giving way too much discretion to people who should not have it, and (2) much more thought and legal review needs to go into ‘the rules’ in order to properly manage both the attendees and the red coats.  The first problem could be addressed with a set list of things the front line guest services people are permitted to say and do.  If they are concerned about something not on the list, get a supervisor.  Kind of the call-center script approach.  A Fans’ Bill of Rights wouldn’t hurt either. We’d all love to see them exercise great judgment and discretion, but it’s just not realistic across that employee base. The second problem needs higher level input.  In my view, Guest Services is set up for conflict and the unanimous disapproval seen here by the content and nature of the so-called ‘Fans Code of Conduct.’  It’s a very lazy Buford T. Justice “do what I say, when I say it” approach.  The University’s legal department also needs to review that document to ensure it fully complies with applicable Federal and State law.  I would argue, as written, it does not.  Regardless, it is also a recipe for conflict, disputes, and bad-will.  Lots of clear rules make sense (no smoking, no going on the field, only sit in assigned seats, etc.), but much of it is just way too vague, broad, authoritarian, hidden, arguably/potentially illegal, and just way too ‘us vs. them’ for no reason.  Here are some excerpts for those who have never seen them (my comments in bold):

Failure to follow this code may result in ejection from the facility… and/or arrest….

--Any action that disrupts other guests' enjoyment of the game [Egregiously vague and subjective; many patently illegal examples come to mind; way way way too much discretion given to people who shouldn’t have it .]

--Profanity or other offensive language, whether spoken or appearing on apparel [in my strong opinion, this violates CA Education Code Section 94367, when applied to students and as previously upheld against STANFORD UNIVERSITY in Robert J. Corry, et al. v. The Leland Stanford Junior University, et al., No. 740309 (Cal. Super. Ct. Feb. 27, 1995); strong arguments also that it is unconstitutional in general].

--Failure to follow the directions of law enforcement or stadium management [law enforcement is properly trained so this makes perfect sense -- it should say 'lawful directions' both otherwise goes without saying; on the other hand, it’s not remotely clear who “stadium management” is or why they should have the power to make up directions on the fly without regard to the law, consistency or common sense….]

--Stanford Athletics reserves the right to determine what constitutes unacceptable behavior.   [Many of the same issues as above.]

[Row80Critic]

1701016482[/url]']
Talk to Chris directly.  When he took over he made big user friendly changes in attitude.  Sadly I hear you.  The “I’m in charge you aren’t” attitude is back with some.

Thanks, I have. He's always great, but then it's the same thing week after week.

After seeing the poll results so far, I’ve been mulling this a bit and suspect the heart of the problem is that (1) the University is giving way too much discretion to people who should not have it, and (2) much more thought and legal review needs to go into ‘the rules’ in order to properly manage both the attendees and the red coats.  The first problem could be addressed with a set list of things the front line guest services people are permitted to say and do.  If they are concerned about something not on the list, get a supervisor.  Kind of the call-center script approach.  A Fans’ Bill of Rights wouldn’t hurt either. We’d all love to see them exercise great judgment and discretion, but it’s just not realistic across that employee base. The second problem needs higher level input.  In my view, Guest Services is set up for conflict and the unanimous disapproval seen here by the content and nature of the so-called ‘Fans Code of Conduct.’  It’s a very lazy Buford T. Justice “do what I say, when I say it” approach.  The University’s legal department also needs to review that document to ensure it fully complies with applicable Federal and State law.  I would argue, as written, it does not.  Regardless, it is also a recipe for conflict, disputes, and bad-will.  Lots of clear rules make sense (no smoking, no going on the field, only sit in assigned seats, etc.), but much of it is just way too vague, broad, authoritarian, hidden, arguably/potentially illegal, and just way too ‘us vs. them’ for no reason.  Here are some excerpts for those who have never seen them (my comments in bold):

Failure to follow this code may result in ejection from the facility… and/or arrest….

--Any action that disrupts other guests' enjoyment of the game [Egregiously vague and subjective; many patently illegal examples come to mind; way way way too much discretion given to people who shouldn’t have it .]

--Profanity or other offensive language, whether spoken or appearing on apparel [in my strong opinion, this violates CA Education Code Section 94367, when applied to students and as previously upheld against STANFORD UNIVERSITY in Robert J. Corry, et al. v. The Leland Stanford Junior University, et al., No. 740309 (Cal. Super. Ct. Feb. 27, 1995); strong arguments also that it is unconstitutional in general].

--Failure to follow the directions of law enforcement or stadium management [law enforcement is properly trained so this makes perfect sense -- it should say 'lawful directions' both otherwise goes without saying; on the other hand, it’s not remotely clear who “stadium management” is or why they should have the power to make up directions on the fly without regard to the law, consistency or common sense….]

--Stanford Athletics reserves the right to determine what constitutes unacceptable behavior.   [Many of the same issues as above.]

[Goose]

My only experience with "Red Coats" is the older gentleman who stands at the "upper" entrance to section 232 and directs people to their seats if they wish. Same guy for a few years. I say hi as I pass. Hard to criticize that. I realize it may be different in other sections.

[Goose]

My only experience with "Red Coats" is the older gentleman who stands at the "upper" entrance to section 232 and directs people to their seats if they wish. Same guy for a few years. I say hi as I pass. Hard to criticize that. I realize it may be different in other sections.

[Row80Critic]

My only experience with "Red Coats" is the older gentleman who stands at the "upper" entrance to section 232 and directs people to their seats if they wish. Same guy for a few years. I say hi as I pass. Hard to criticize that. I realize it may be different in other sections.

Yes for sure.  I didn't mean to suggest they were all as bad as the guy we got last night. I'm sure many are great.  I suspect part of our issue is that we are an accessible seat row, which is very visible; and we are not in an alumni or VIP section.   Hard to believe this would be tolerated over multiple seasons if this were happening between the 30's....

[Row80Critic]

My only experience with "Red Coats" is the older gentleman who stands at the "upper" entrance to section 232 and directs people to their seats if they wish. Same guy for a few years. I say hi as I pass. Hard to criticize that. I realize it may be different in other sections.

Yes for sure.  I didn't mean to suggest they were all as bad as the guy we got last night. I'm sure many are great.  I suspect part of our issue is that we are an accessible seat row, which is very visible; and we are not in an alumni or VIP section.   Hard to believe this would be tolerated over multiple seasons if this were happening between the 30's....

[PAsportsfan]

Based on my experience it seems the Red Coats are ordered to police the handicapped seats and the Blue Line behind the seats. 

I would think once you show them your tickets the conversation would stop.

Sounds like each game they forget who you are and the process starts over again.

[PAsportsfan]

Based on my experience it seems the Red Coats are ordered to police the handicapped seats and the Blue Line behind the seats. 

I would think once you show them your tickets the conversation would stop.

Sounds like each game they forget who you are and the process starts over again.

[crackpot]

We had a couple off bad experiences with the accessible seating for basketball last year. My wife found her seat, someone else came along and said it was his seat. When turning to the redcoat for assistance, he agreed it was her seat but that "he always sits there" and placed her behind the flagpole for the rest of the game.

The next time she came to a game, different seat, different redcoat. Someone was sitting in this seat. She told the redcoat, he not only immediately ousted that squatter, he checked in with her a few times during the game to make sure she was okay.

From the Watching Too Many Crime Shows category, this season I was walking to Maples to attend the Hawaii game and the football team was practicing. Walked past the first redcoat, said hello. The second one was a little more chatty. As I walked away, he said, "Go Cards!" and the hair on the back of my neck stood up. He's a @#$@ spy for Oregon State!! was my first thought.

[crackpot]

We had a couple off bad experiences with the accessible seating for basketball last year. My wife found her seat, someone else came along and said it was his seat. When turning to the redcoat for assistance, he agreed it was her seat but that "he always sits there" and placed her behind the flagpole for the rest of the game.

The next time she came to a game, different seat, different redcoat. Someone was sitting in this seat. She told the redcoat, he not only immediately ousted that squatter, he checked in with her a few times during the game to make sure she was okay.

From the Watching Too Many Crime Shows category, this season I was walking to Maples to attend the Hawaii game and the football team was practicing. Walked past the first redcoat, said hello. The second one was a little more chatty. As I walked away, he said, "Go Cards!" and the hair on the back of my neck stood up. He's a @#$@ spy for Oregon State!! was my first thought.

[Nobadeer]

I remember Chris Dorst being introduced as a guest at lunch at Branner in winter quarter 1977. This was shortly after he had led LSJU to the 1976 men's water polo NCAA championship, which was the top LSJU sports highlight of the fall 1976 quarter, along with the exciting Big Game win at Cal. He got quite an ovation from the ~ 150 or so wide eyed freshmen.

[Nobadeer]

I remember Chris Dorst being introduced as a guest at lunch at Branner in winter quarter 1977. This was shortly after he had led LSJU to the 1976 men's water polo NCAA championship, which was the top LSJU sports highlight of the fall 1976 quarter, along with the exciting Big Game win at Cal. He got quite an ovation from the ~ 150 or so wide eyed freshmen.

[skip75]

At one of the men's basketball games this season (which of course had no shortage of empty seats), I saw 4-5 football players come in in the second half.  They sat down in a loge section that was almost empty.  After awhile, a red coat came over, and soon after the football players left.  I don't know what was said, and I suppose the red coat was doing his job exactly as instructed.  It just seemed to me to be a situation where some discretion could have been used.

I haven't had any issues with red coats myself.  My observation over many years is that most of them seem to have their heart in the right place, but that some of them can be (to use a Marv Levy phrase) over officious jerks at times.

[skip75]

At one of the men's basketball games this season (which of course had no shortage of empty seats), I saw 4-5 football players come in in the second half.  They sat down in a loge section that was almost empty.  After awhile, a red coat came over, and soon after the football players left.  I don't know what was said, and I suppose the red coat was doing his job exactly as instructed.  It just seemed to me to be a situation where some discretion could have been used.

I haven't had any issues with red coats myself.  My observation over many years is that most of them seem to have their heart in the right place, but that some of them can be (to use a Marv Levy phrase) over officious jerks at times.

[PVTree]

I've only had one bad personal experience with them. Last year, at a WBB, I took some photos during game action. 

I was following the plays with my phone in case I sensed that something interesting may happen, and I would be in a position to take the photo.

A red coat comes up to me and tells me I can't be videoing the game. I tell him that I'm not. He says that he's been watching me, and I've been moving my phone on the court in a way that it's obvious I'm videoing.

I repeat that I'm not, and he leaves giving me a disgusted look that I did not admit to what he thought I was doing.

In general, I don't like how they speak to the kids that attend the games. They seem to try and bully them. They don't get that today's kids may become tomorrow's season-ticket buying fans... Unless they have bad memories of the bullies in the red coats scaring them.

It's seems to be like Zimbardo's experiment; Give them perceived power, and they exaggerate it.

[PVTree]

I've only had one bad personal experience with them. Last year, at a WBB, I took some photos during game action. 

I was following the plays with my phone in case I sensed that something interesting may happen, and I would be in a position to take the photo.

A red coat comes up to me and tells me I can't be videoing the game. I tell him that I'm not. He says that he's been watching me, and I've been moving my phone on the court in a way that it's obvious I'm videoing.

I repeat that I'm not, and he leaves giving me a disgusted look that I did not admit to what he thought I was doing.

In general, I don't like how they speak to the kids that attend the games. They seem to try and bully them. They don't get that today's kids may become tomorrow's season-ticket buying fans... Unless they have bad memories of the bullies in the red coats scaring them.

It's seems to be like Zimbardo's experiment; Give them perceived power, and they exaggerate it.

[BobK]

Years ago at a WBB game a group of WVB sat down low in loge section and were asked to leave. I learned later after I wrote several emails that it had to do with where athletes are allowed to sit by ncaa rule. Maybe still a rule

[BobK]

Years ago at a WBB game a group of WVB sat down low in loge section and were asked to leave. I learned later after I wrote several emails that it had to do with where athletes are allowed to sit by ncaa rule. Maybe still a rule

[Row80Critic]

Resurrecting this old thread to say our experience this year with the Red Coats has been vastly improved over prior years. Absolutely none of the nonsensical, relentless badgering we've received the last three or four years.  Has something changed at the top, or have we just been lucky this year?

[Row80Critic]

Resurrecting this old thread to say our experience this year with the Red Coats has been vastly improved over prior years. Absolutely none of the nonsensical, relentless badgering we've received the last three or four years.  Has something changed at the top, or have we just been lucky this year?

[fullmetal]

I hope to not get harangued the next time I go to a baseball game and put my sunglasses on top of a flat surface in front of me.

[fullmetal]

I hope to not get harangued the next time I go to a baseball game and put my sunglasses on top of a flat surface in front of me.

[BobK]

If row 1 you should get harassed. It interferes even with the screen.

[BobK]

If row 1 you should get harassed. It interferes even with the screen.

[PVTree]

At the men's soccer game, the red costs were at their usual. Quickly jumping on anytime unknowingly seating on the reserved seats, telling kids not to be kids by not allowing them to run, telling a fan that they needed to leave their metal water bottle outside the stadium as it wasn't allowed, and generally putting on their "I have no friends" faces. 

I still have a negative view of these people who are there to help fans not treat them as if they are hooligans.

[PVTree]

At the men's soccer game, the red costs were at their usual. Quickly jumping on anytime unknowingly seating on the reserved seats, telling kids not to be kids by not allowing them to run, telling a fan that they needed to leave their metal water bottle outside the stadium as it wasn't allowed, and generally putting on their "I have no friends" faces. 

I still have a negative view of these people who are there to help fans not treat them as if they are hooligans.

[Mick]

At the men's soccer game, the red costs were at their usual. Quickly jumping on anytime unknowingly seating on the reserved seats, telling kids not to be kids by not allowing them to run, telling a fan that they needed to leave their metal water bottle outside the stadium as it wasn't allowed, and generally putting on their "I have no friends" faces. 

I still have a negative view of these people who are there to help fans not treat them as if they are hooligans.

Hate to say it, but one of my lasting memories is when a co-worker of mine and I (neither of us were Stanford alums) attended a game and started to throw the football around in a parking lot by a tailgate. This was one of my signature memories over the decades that I attended the games with my grandparents ('41 and '42), my in-laws ('57 and '59), my sister-in-law ('89), my cousin, Mark Marquess' team manager ('92) and my sister ('04 PhD). 

I'd been attending football tailgates at Stanford games since I was a little kid and the starting QB was from James Lick High in East San Jose. Every game, we'd throw the football around and as my guest and I were throwing the ball, security rushed up to tell us that throwing the football was no longer allowed in our parking lot. Apparently, the rule had been changed that year.

Ok. No throwing the football at football games.

I've been back to Stanford games. Just not as many of them.

[Mick]

At the men's soccer game, the red costs were at their usual. Quickly jumping on anytime unknowingly seating on the reserved seats, telling kids not to be kids by not allowing them to run, telling a fan that they needed to leave their metal water bottle outside the stadium as it wasn't allowed, and generally putting on their "I have no friends" faces. 

I still have a negative view of these people who are there to help fans not treat them as if they are hooligans.

Hate to say it, but one of my lasting memories is when a co-worker of mine and I (neither of us were Stanford alums) attended a game and started to throw the football around in a parking lot by a tailgate. This was one of my signature memories over the decades that I attended the games with my grandparents ('41 and '42), my in-laws ('57 and '59), my sister-in-law ('89), my cousin, Mark Marquess' team manager ('92) and my sister ('04 PhD). 

I'd been attending football tailgates at Stanford games since I was a little kid and the starting QB was from James Lick High in East San Jose. Every game, we'd throw the football around and as my guest and I were throwing the ball, security rushed up to tell us that throwing the football was no longer allowed in our parking lot. Apparently, the rule had been changed that year.

Ok. No throwing the football at football games.

I've been back to Stanford games. Just not as many of them.

[skip75]

So I guess Stanford Hates Fun does not apply only to students.

[skip75]

So I guess Stanford Hates Fun does not apply only to students.