[yvonne]

Wins are vacated, fwliw.

[yvonne]

Wins are vacated, fwliw.

[StanFan88]

Twice in three years.  "Lack of institutional control"?

The University of Student-ATHLETES?

[StanFan88]

Twice in three years.  "Lack of institutional control"?

The University of Student-ATHLETES?

[Rally]

Twice in three years.  "Lack of institutional control"?

The University of Student-ATHLETES?

Dimes to donuts the NCAA wont touch it.  Cowards.

[Rally]

Twice in three years.  "Lack of institutional control"?

The University of Student-ATHLETES?

Dimes to donuts the NCAA wont touch it.  Cowards.

[Bruce Wang]

Time for a new auto-correct...

[Bruce Wang]

Time for a new auto-correct...

[socalstanfan1]

As the schadenfreude and giddy rubbernecking subsides, will Stanford capitalize on this disaster in the class of 2015 and beyond?

In the near term, are there any ND commits who could be Stanford-qualified? 

In the longer term, does this do anything to strengthen the Stanford value proposition, or are ND recruits really not going to be influenced by the fact ND football players really aren't interested in being educated, as much as staying eligible and getting a degree for the sake of getting one?  I mean anyone serious about education knows cheating on tests is only cheating yourself.  Those who value learning and competing in the classroom, don't cheat.

My guess would be that's this won't really effect recruiting competition between ND and Stanford. Those students who are leaning toward ND will say this is just a few bad apples out of 80+ scholarship players! and may even give kudos to the University for taking action once it got the news; the one guy we are both after is Equinemious St. Brown; maybe his mom, who according to one report favors Stanford, can use it to try to sway him our way, assuming he is still on the fence. But otherwise, the force of rationalization and justification is strong in most people.

[socalstanfan1]

As the schadenfreude and giddy rubbernecking subsides, will Stanford capitalize on this disaster in the class of 2015 and beyond?

In the near term, are there any ND commits who could be Stanford-qualified? 

In the longer term, does this do anything to strengthen the Stanford value proposition, or are ND recruits really not going to be influenced by the fact ND football players really aren't interested in being educated, as much as staying eligible and getting a degree for the sake of getting one?  I mean anyone serious about education knows cheating on tests is only cheating yourself.  Those who value learning and competing in the classroom, don't cheat.

My guess would be that's this won't really effect recruiting competition between ND and Stanford. Those students who are leaning toward ND will say this is just a few bad apples out of 80+ scholarship players! and may even give kudos to the University for taking action once it got the news; the one guy we are both after is Equinemious St. Brown; maybe his mom, who according to one report favors Stanford, can use it to try to sway him our way, assuming he is still on the fence. But otherwise, the force of rationalization and justification is strong in most people.

[Rally]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=10371.msg94400#msg94400 date=1408132251]
As the schadenfreude and giddy rubbernecking subsides, will Stanford capitalize on this disaster in the class of 2015 and beyond?

In the near term, are there any ND commits who could be Stanford-qualified? 

In the longer term, does this do anything to strengthen the Stanford value proposition, or are ND recruits really not going to be influenced by the fact ND football players really aren't interested in being educated, as much as staying eligible and getting a degree for the sake of getting one?  I mean anyone serious about education knows cheating on tests is only cheating yourself.  Those who value learning and competing in the classroom, don't cheat.

My guess would be that's this won't really effect recruiting competition between ND and Stanford. Those students who are leaning toward ND will say this is just a few bad apples out of 80+ scholarship players! and may even give kudos to the University for taking action once it got the news; the one guy we are both after is Equinemious St. Brown; maybe his mom, who according to one report favors Stanford, can use it to try to sway him our way, assuming he is still on the fence. But otherwise, the force of rationalization and justification is strong in most people.
[/quote]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious.  Gotta have his name on our team.  Any takers?

[Rally]

[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=10371.msg94400#msg94400 date=1408132251]
As the schadenfreude and giddy rubbernecking subsides, will Stanford capitalize on this disaster in the class of 2015 and beyond?

In the near term, are there any ND commits who could be Stanford-qualified? 

In the longer term, does this do anything to strengthen the Stanford value proposition, or are ND recruits really not going to be influenced by the fact ND football players really aren't interested in being educated, as much as staying eligible and getting a degree for the sake of getting one?  I mean anyone serious about education knows cheating on tests is only cheating yourself.  Those who value learning and competing in the classroom, don't cheat.

My guess would be that's this won't really effect recruiting competition between ND and Stanford. Those students who are leaning toward ND will say this is just a few bad apples out of 80+ scholarship players! and may even give kudos to the University for taking action once it got the news; the one guy we are both after is Equinemious St. Brown; maybe his mom, who according to one report favors Stanford, can use it to try to sway him our way, assuming he is still on the fence. But otherwise, the force of rationalization and justification is strong in most people.
[/quote]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious.  Gotta have his name on our team.  Any takers?

[CTcard]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious. 

Okay.
You win for most completely confusing and misspelled sentence(s) of the year.

[CTcard]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious. 

Okay.
You win for most completely confusing and misspelled sentence(s) of the year.

[martyup]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=10371.msg94406#msg94406 date=1408134219]If we are awarded the 2012 ND game win because of this, it is karma for that bad call when Taylor scored.

We don't get a win, our record can never be better than 12-2 for that year. What will happen is that ND's record goes to 0-1. I believe this is how it works.
[/quote]

Well, at least they don't get the win.  That's a little karma.

[martyup]

[quote author=martyup link=topic=10371.msg94406#msg94406 date=1408134219]If we are awarded the 2012 ND game win because of this, it is karma for that bad call when Taylor scored.

We don't get a win, our record can never be better than 12-2 for that year. What will happen is that ND's record goes to 0-1. I believe this is how it works.
[/quote]

Well, at least they don't get the win.  That's a little karma.

[washingtonismoney]

Stewart Mandel has some HOT SPORTS TAKES, but does drop this interesting tidbit:

Notre Dame’s pristine academics image was already a bit of a façade. Recruiters for other schools have long been bewildered by just how low the program’s admissions bar appears to be compared with other prestigious private-school teams like Stanford, Northwestern and Vanderbilt. The school that for decades refused to play in bowl games and still refrains from using the term “redshirt” continues to portray an idealized version of itself as a bastion of athletic virtue while more closely resembling a traditional football factory.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...ayers.html

[washingtonismoney]

Stewart Mandel has some HOT SPORTS TAKES, but does drop this interesting tidbit:

Notre Dame’s pristine academics image was already a bit of a façade. Recruiters for other schools have long been bewildered by just how low the program’s admissions bar appears to be compared with other prestigious private-school teams like Stanford, Northwestern and Vanderbilt. The school that for decades refused to play in bowl games and still refrains from using the term “redshirt” continues to portray an idealized version of itself as a bastion of athletic virtue while more closely resembling a traditional football factory.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...ayers.html

[PrinceLightfoot]

A summary of everything except that Brian Kelly will address the media after practice Saturday around 12:30 PM (CST?).

http://www.uhnd.com/articles/football/je...stigation/

What We Know

Notre Dame compliance was first alerted to the potential academic misconduct on July 29.

Notre Dame alerted the NCAA this morning of the investigation and their plan of action.  Jenkins said that the NCAA is comfortable with the communication from Notre Dame to this point.

The four players involved are in fact Davaris Daniels, Ishaq Williams, Kendall Moore, and Keivarae Russell.  We had previously been refraining from mentioning the players names out of respect for them until the University confirmed them.

All four players are still enrolled in school and none have been dismissed from the team at this time.  They will have full access to all training facilities, training table, etc that come with being a grant in aid player.  Multiple media outlets were quick to run with reports that these players have been kicked out of school – looking at you Fox Sports – but those reports were premature and irresponsible journalism.

All four players are being held out of practice and competition during the investigation.  They were informed of the situation on Friday morning.

Jenkins and Swarbrick still have full faith in Brian Kelly and said that there wasn’t anything that indicated the staff knew anything before the suspicions were first reported.

Swarbrick told Kelly of the investigation on Thursday and said that the head coach was devastated but supportive of the steps Notre Dame was taking.

The alleged acts were labeled as academic misconduct and not due to grades.

The official press release said that the issue at hand dealt with players turning in homework and papers that they did not write themselves.

If the investigation determines that the eligibility of the players involved was ever compromised (ie if this conduct occurred during previous seasons) Notre Dame would voluntarily vacate those victories.

There is no evidence right now of there being any aspect of this situation that would have consequences with the NCAA.  Swarbrick said that if, during the course of their investigation, they will alert the NCAA.

What We Don’t Know

We don’t know how far back this issue goes.  Jenkins was asked multiple times about how far back they are investigating and every time he said that he wasn’t able to provide those details at this time.

We don’t know how long this investigation will take.

We don’t know what potential disciplinary action may await the players should they be found guilty of the alleged actions.  Because Jenkins was clear that the alleged actions were academic misconduct and not related to grades, it’s not a given that every player involved will be lost for the year even if they are found to be guilty.

We don’t know if there are any other former or current players who could be brought into the investigation.  Neither Jenkins or Swarbrick would confirm nor deny that other players could be included.  Right now it is just the four players mentioned above.

[PrinceLightfoot]

A summary of everything except that Brian Kelly will address the media after practice Saturday around 12:30 PM (CST?).

http://www.uhnd.com/articles/football/je...stigation/

What We Know

Notre Dame compliance was first alerted to the potential academic misconduct on July 29.

Notre Dame alerted the NCAA this morning of the investigation and their plan of action.  Jenkins said that the NCAA is comfortable with the communication from Notre Dame to this point.

The four players involved are in fact Davaris Daniels, Ishaq Williams, Kendall Moore, and Keivarae Russell.  We had previously been refraining from mentioning the players names out of respect for them until the University confirmed them.

All four players are still enrolled in school and none have been dismissed from the team at this time.  They will have full access to all training facilities, training table, etc that come with being a grant in aid player.  Multiple media outlets were quick to run with reports that these players have been kicked out of school – looking at you Fox Sports – but those reports were premature and irresponsible journalism.

All four players are being held out of practice and competition during the investigation.  They were informed of the situation on Friday morning.

Jenkins and Swarbrick still have full faith in Brian Kelly and said that there wasn’t anything that indicated the staff knew anything before the suspicions were first reported.

Swarbrick told Kelly of the investigation on Thursday and said that the head coach was devastated but supportive of the steps Notre Dame was taking.

The alleged acts were labeled as academic misconduct and not due to grades.

The official press release said that the issue at hand dealt with players turning in homework and papers that they did not write themselves.

If the investigation determines that the eligibility of the players involved was ever compromised (ie if this conduct occurred during previous seasons) Notre Dame would voluntarily vacate those victories.

There is no evidence right now of there being any aspect of this situation that would have consequences with the NCAA.  Swarbrick said that if, during the course of their investigation, they will alert the NCAA.

What We Don’t Know

We don’t know how far back this issue goes.  Jenkins was asked multiple times about how far back they are investigating and every time he said that he wasn’t able to provide those details at this time.

We don’t know how long this investigation will take.

We don’t know what potential disciplinary action may await the players should they be found guilty of the alleged actions.  Because Jenkins was clear that the alleged actions were academic misconduct and not related to grades, it’s not a given that every player involved will be lost for the year even if they are found to be guilty.

We don’t know if there are any other former or current players who could be brought into the investigation.  Neither Jenkins or Swarbrick would confirm nor deny that other players could be included.  Right now it is just the four players mentioned above.

[CTcard]

[quote author=StanFan88 link=topic=10371.msg94427#msg94427 date=1408145204]
Twice in three years.  "Lack of institutional control"?

The University of Student-ATHLETES?

Dimes to donuts the NCAA wont touch it.  Cowards.
[/quote]

Man I hate this, but somebody's got to do it. So, time to hold my nose and ...

defend N.o.t.r.e D.a.m.e.

At least as far as I have read, there is not enough out there yet to really know what has happened. But at the least, I haven't seen anything indicating that N.o.t.r.e D.a.m.e has acted  improperly. It appears this has just arisen in the media precisely because UND is doing something about it, not the other way around - reacting only because the story got out. I haven't seen any reports that anyone with institutional responsibility has tried to stamp this down because football players were involved.

And individuals cheating is going to happen. Most reports I have read estimate that between 80 to 90 percent of college students cheat at some point. Now that is not all the time, and mostly not to the level that one would get expelled if caught, but even at that level its got to be a significant amount. Neither an institution nor a football program is going to be able to simply not have kids cheat, or be in a position to make sure it doesn't happen. The measure of the institution is how they deal with the situation if it happens. I can't tell if Notre Dame is handling this correctly, but at least they seem to be doing something.

Generally similar with Golson. He was kicked out of school for a year. I don't know if they handled that correctly, but that's not nothing.

As to the NCAA. I don't know what you think their role should be with respect to monitoring academic fraud in the classroom.
They should (and at least sort of have) become involved when a coaching staff seems to be involved in either facilitating or covering up cheating. They should not, and mostly haven't, become involved if there is simply a violation of a University's honor code or academic standards, the university addresses the issue, and treats the student athletes on par with other students.


... and besides there's plenty of other reasons to hold the Domers in contempt.

[CTcard]

[quote author=StanFan88 link=topic=10371.msg94427#msg94427 date=1408145204]
Twice in three years.  "Lack of institutional control"?

The University of Student-ATHLETES?

Dimes to donuts the NCAA wont touch it.  Cowards.
[/quote]

Man I hate this, but somebody's got to do it. So, time to hold my nose and ...

defend N.o.t.r.e D.a.m.e.

At least as far as I have read, there is not enough out there yet to really know what has happened. But at the least, I haven't seen anything indicating that N.o.t.r.e D.a.m.e has acted  improperly. It appears this has just arisen in the media precisely because UND is doing something about it, not the other way around - reacting only because the story got out. I haven't seen any reports that anyone with institutional responsibility has tried to stamp this down because football players were involved.

And individuals cheating is going to happen. Most reports I have read estimate that between 80 to 90 percent of college students cheat at some point. Now that is not all the time, and mostly not to the level that one would get expelled if caught, but even at that level its got to be a significant amount. Neither an institution nor a football program is going to be able to simply not have kids cheat, or be in a position to make sure it doesn't happen. The measure of the institution is how they deal with the situation if it happens. I can't tell if Notre Dame is handling this correctly, but at least they seem to be doing something.

Generally similar with Golson. He was kicked out of school for a year. I don't know if they handled that correctly, but that's not nothing.

As to the NCAA. I don't know what you think their role should be with respect to monitoring academic fraud in the classroom.
They should (and at least sort of have) become involved when a coaching staff seems to be involved in either facilitating or covering up cheating. They should not, and mostly haven't, become involved if there is simply a violation of a University's honor code or academic standards, the university addresses the issue, and treats the student athletes on par with other students.


... and besides there's plenty of other reasons to hold the Domers in contempt.

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10371.msg94432#msg94432 date=1408149119]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious. 

Okay.
You win for most completely confusing and misspelled sentence(s) of the year.
[/quote]

I finally won something!  I want to thank my manager, my parents, my fans, God, Sister Rita, and the Good Humor man who saw me through my childhood. Sometimes what comes out makes more sense than What I intended to say, and I attribute that to a God-given ability to communicate truth, regardless of the audience, in the traditon of Clint Eastwood and Marlon Brando. If I forgot anyone know that I love you anyway.  This means the world to me!

Okay, let's try again.

Someone not considered a booster needs to come up with a Stanford cheer for Equinemous.  We need that name on our team.  Any takers?

Better?

[Rally]

[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10371.msg94432#msg94432 date=1408149119]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious. 

Okay.
You win for most completely confusing and misspelled sentence(s) of the year.
[/quote]

I finally won something!  I want to thank my manager, my parents, my fans, God, Sister Rita, and the Good Humor man who saw me through my childhood. Sometimes what comes out makes more sense than What I intended to say, and I attribute that to a God-given ability to communicate truth, regardless of the audience, in the traditon of Clint Eastwood and Marlon Brando. If I forgot anyone know that I love you anyway.  This means the world to me!

Okay, let's try again.

Someone not considered a booster needs to come up with a Stanford cheer for Equinemous.  We need that name on our team.  Any takers?

Better?

[OutsiderFan]

This is what I mean.  What can Stanford do to highlight the message Mandel is making, without calling out ND specifically, but allowing recruits and their parents to draw the conclusion themselves?

Notre Dame football is sort of like Duke basketball when it comes to the academic prestige facade, with way less on-field success.  Coach K's stability and the fact he has had no scandals on his watch probably explains a lot about how a similar facade in his hoops program has never been breached.  Any Stanford fan bristles whenever Duke and Stanford are compared as hoops programs of similar academic repute.

[OutsiderFan]

This is what I mean.  What can Stanford do to highlight the message Mandel is making, without calling out ND specifically, but allowing recruits and their parents to draw the conclusion themselves?

Notre Dame football is sort of like Duke basketball when it comes to the academic prestige facade, with way less on-field success.  Coach K's stability and the fact he has had no scandals on his watch probably explains a lot about how a similar facade in his hoops program has never been breached.  Any Stanford fan bristles whenever Duke and Stanford are compared as hoops programs of similar academic repute.

[OutsiderFan]

So wait, the guy says "have sex with me, and I'll let you write my paper?"

That's like a guy taking a gal out on a date and saying "if you pay for dinner, you get to have sex with me."  Have I had it wrong all these years thinking the guy has to buy dinner to get sex?

:P

[OutsiderFan]

So wait, the guy says "have sex with me, and I'll let you write my paper?"

That's like a guy taking a gal out on a date and saying "if you pay for dinner, you get to have sex with me."  Have I had it wrong all these years thinking the guy has to buy dinner to get sex?

:P

[scorecard]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=10371.msg94434#msg94434 date=1408151932]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10371.msg94432#msg94432 date=1408149119]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious. 

Okay.
You win for most completely confusing and misspelled sentence(s) of the year.
[/quote]

I finally won something!  I want to thank my manager, my parents, my fans, God, Sister Rita, and the Good Humor man who saw me through my childhood. Sometimes what comes out makes more sense than What I intended to say, and I attribute that to a God-given ability to communicate truth, regardless of the audience, in the traditon of Clint Eastwood and Marlon Brando. If I forgot anyone know that I love you anyway.  This means the world to me!

Okay, let's try again.

Someone not considered a booster needs to come up with a Stanford cheer for Equinemous.  We need that name on our team.  Any takers?

Better?
[/quote]


Oh my, so close, yet so far. 

The sentence is now readable, but you butchered the poor kid's name yet again.  His name is Equanimeous.  Your version changed the meaning from "calm under pressure" to more like "runs like a horse," which isn't too bad for a wide receiver, but still not his name.  Maybe this is just the Ferrari horse heritage in you writing subliminally?

Maybe Notre Dame can arrange for you to have a spelling tutor...

[scorecard]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=10371.msg94434#msg94434 date=1408151932]
[quote author=ferrari link=topic=10371.msg94432#msg94432 date=1408149119]

Someone not considered. Boostr neds to com up with a Stanford chher for Equinemious. 

Okay.
You win for most completely confusing and misspelled sentence(s) of the year.
[/quote]

I finally won something!  I want to thank my manager, my parents, my fans, God, Sister Rita, and the Good Humor man who saw me through my childhood. Sometimes what comes out makes more sense than What I intended to say, and I attribute that to a God-given ability to communicate truth, regardless of the audience, in the traditon of Clint Eastwood and Marlon Brando. If I forgot anyone know that I love you anyway.  This means the world to me!

Okay, let's try again.

Someone not considered a booster needs to come up with a Stanford cheer for Equinemous.  We need that name on our team.  Any takers?

Better?
[/quote]


Oh my, so close, yet so far. 

The sentence is now readable, but you butchered the poor kid's name yet again.  His name is Equanimeous.  Your version changed the meaning from "calm under pressure" to more like "runs like a horse," which isn't too bad for a wide receiver, but still not his name.  Maybe this is just the Ferrari horse heritage in you writing subliminally?

Maybe Notre Dame can arrange for you to have a spelling tutor...

[StanFan88]

Man I hate this, but somebody's got to do it. So, time to hold my nose and ...

defend Dead Fake Girlfriends

How many more incidents will it take for you to go back on this statement?  This is the fourth (2 academic, 1 death, 1 rape) in Kelly's pretty short tenure.  I'm sure that Kelly and his staff had no knowledge about any of it, but at some point you have to ask if they are even looking or talking to their kids about what NOT to do?

[StanFan88]

Man I hate this, but somebody's got to do it. So, time to hold my nose and ...

defend Dead Fake Girlfriends

How many more incidents will it take for you to go back on this statement?  This is the fourth (2 academic, 1 death, 1 rape) in Kelly's pretty short tenure.  I'm sure that Kelly and his staff had no knowledge about any of it, but at some point you have to ask if they are even looking or talking to their kids about what NOT to do?

[terry]

NotreDame's administration went out of its way in its statement to emphasize that Kelly didn't know anything about the academic fraud. The administration didn't even wait for the investigation to conclude before they cleared Kelly. They've obviously made the decision that this isn't going to affect Kelly.

[terry]

NotreDame's administration went out of its way in its statement to emphasize that Kelly didn't know anything about the academic fraud. The administration didn't even wait for the investigation to conclude before they cleared Kelly. They've obviously made the decision that this isn't going to affect Kelly.

[Spiny_Norman]

from Deadspin comments - " This will blow over just like a scissor lift."

btw, is an "explusion" an explosive expulsion?

[Spiny_Norman]

from Deadspin comments - " This will blow over just like a scissor lift."

btw, is an "explusion" an explosive expulsion?

[Leftcoast]

According to today's Mercury we offered Russell.  True?  We also offered Jameis Winston, correct?

I'd like to believe this could never happen here but a slight doubt keeps me from getting too self-righteous.  On the other hand, if I were the parent of a top recruit I know which school would get my vote.

[Leftcoast]

According to today's Mercury we offered Russell.  True?  We also offered Jameis Winston, correct?

I'd like to believe this could never happen here but a slight doubt keeps me from getting too self-righteous.  On the other hand, if I were the parent of a top recruit I know which school would get my vote.

[stupac2]

from Deadspin comments - " This will blow over just like a scissor lift."

btw, is an "explusion" an explosive expulsion?

That reminds me of the stomach bug I got last week...

[stupac2]

from Deadspin comments - " This will blow over just like a scissor lift."

btw, is an "explusion" an explosive expulsion?

That reminds me of the stomach bug I got last week...