[PrinceLightfoot]

According to today's Mercury we offered Russell.  True?  We also offered Jameis Winston, correct?

We did offer Russell, but I am not sure what admissions take on him was or if he even applied.

Jameis was offered and accepted by admissions. I would like to believe that Winston's environment (teammates/school/player worship) has greatly influenced his terribly poor decisions, but sometimes a bad apple is a bad apple no matter where it is placed.

[PrinceLightfoot]

According to today's Mercury we offered Russell.  True?  We also offered Jameis Winston, correct?

We did offer Russell, but I am not sure what admissions take on him was or if he even applied.

Jameis was offered and accepted by admissions. I would like to believe that Winston's environment (teammates/school/player worship) has greatly influenced his terribly poor decisions, but sometimes a bad apple is a bad apple no matter where it is placed.

[StanFan88]

NotreDame's administration went out of its way in its statement to emphasize that Kelly didn't know anything about the academic fraud. The administration didn't even wait for the investigation to conclude before they cleared Kelly. They've obviously made the decision that this isn't going to affect Kelly.

I agree but I gotta believe Kelly is on thin ice.  You can only plead ignorance so many times.

[StanFan88]

NotreDame's administration went out of its way in its statement to emphasize that Kelly didn't know anything about the academic fraud. The administration didn't even wait for the investigation to conclude before they cleared Kelly. They've obviously made the decision that this isn't going to affect Kelly.

I agree but I gotta believe Kelly is on thin ice.  You can only plead ignorance so many times.

[JohnR34231]

So wait, the guy says "have sex with me, and I'll let you write my paper?"

That's like a guy taking a gal out on a date and saying "if you pay for dinner, you get to have sex with me."  Have I had it wrong all these years thinking the guy has to buy dinner to get sex?

:P

Reminds me of an old cartoon I saw one time. A waiter and the Maitre D' are chatting in an empty swanky restaurant.  One says to the other, "What's wrong with business? I'll tell you what's wrong with business. A guy doesn't need to take a girl out to dinner to get sex any more."

[JohnR34231]

So wait, the guy says "have sex with me, and I'll let you write my paper?"

That's like a guy taking a gal out on a date and saying "if you pay for dinner, you get to have sex with me."  Have I had it wrong all these years thinking the guy has to buy dinner to get sex?

:P

Reminds me of an old cartoon I saw one time. A waiter and the Maitre D' are chatting in an empty swanky restaurant.  One says to the other, "What's wrong with business? I'll tell you what's wrong with business. A guy doesn't need to take a girl out to dinner to get sex any more."

[CTcard]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=10371.msg94442#msg94442 date=1408161295]
Man I hate this, but somebody's got to do it. So, time to hold my nose and ...

defend Dead Fake Girlfriends

How many more incidents will it take for you to go back on this statement?  This is the fourth (2 academic, 1 death, 1 rape) in Kelly's pretty short tenure.  I'm sure that Kelly and his staff had no knowledge about any of it, but at some point you have to ask if they are even looking or talking to their kids about what NOT to do?
[/quote]

Well, I wasn't trying to defend Kelly in any fashion. In fact, it may be telling that the University administration apparently went out of it's way NOT to tell Kelly about the investigation until it was up and running. That may just be standard procedure (it should be), or it may be that they didn't trust him, or it may be that they are angling to separate him from the incident as far as possible.

The death and the rape don't reflect well on the domers. Not just that they happened, which may be understandable, but from what I can tell the response has been less than adequate - though in both cases it's difficult to tell what was really going on. So far, it seems that n-o-t-r-e d-a-m-e has reacted to the academic misconduct cases as they would for all students and more strictly than most schools would.

As to looking talking to kids about what not to do. Well, they probably don't explicitly tell the players not to send anybody up on scissor lifts in high winds - though I hope the staff has now had some basic safety course. Telling kids not to cheat or rape someone is rather trite, though I understand this sort of thing is repeated regularly in most programs. 

I heard some very interesting comments from Tim Brown the other day. He was complaining that Notre Dame has dropped a lot of their programs to force football players to be part of the general student body. He mentioned a couple of points, though the only one I remember was that Notre Dame used to make everyone live in dorms for three years, and now it's only one; so most football players move off campus after their first year. I had always admired Notre Dame for making their players part of the general campus more than most - I may have to recalibrate that evaluation.

[CTcard]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=10371.msg94442#msg94442 date=1408161295]
Man I hate this, but somebody's got to do it. So, time to hold my nose and ...

defend Dead Fake Girlfriends

How many more incidents will it take for you to go back on this statement?  This is the fourth (2 academic, 1 death, 1 rape) in Kelly's pretty short tenure.  I'm sure that Kelly and his staff had no knowledge about any of it, but at some point you have to ask if they are even looking or talking to their kids about what NOT to do?
[/quote]

Well, I wasn't trying to defend Kelly in any fashion. In fact, it may be telling that the University administration apparently went out of it's way NOT to tell Kelly about the investigation until it was up and running. That may just be standard procedure (it should be), or it may be that they didn't trust him, or it may be that they are angling to separate him from the incident as far as possible.

The death and the rape don't reflect well on the domers. Not just that they happened, which may be understandable, but from what I can tell the response has been less than adequate - though in both cases it's difficult to tell what was really going on. So far, it seems that n-o-t-r-e d-a-m-e has reacted to the academic misconduct cases as they would for all students and more strictly than most schools would.

As to looking talking to kids about what not to do. Well, they probably don't explicitly tell the players not to send anybody up on scissor lifts in high winds - though I hope the staff has now had some basic safety course. Telling kids not to cheat or rape someone is rather trite, though I understand this sort of thing is repeated regularly in most programs. 

I heard some very interesting comments from Tim Brown the other day. He was complaining that Notre Dame has dropped a lot of their programs to force football players to be part of the general student body. He mentioned a couple of points, though the only one I remember was that Notre Dame used to make everyone live in dorms for three years, and now it's only one; so most football players move off campus after their first year. I had always admired Notre Dame for making their players part of the general campus more than most - I may have to recalibrate that evaluation.

[81alum]

Rape prevention and academic integrity programs may not prevent any individual case of sexual assault or of cheating, but they do produce measurable results on an overall student body compared with not having such programs.  They take a university that is committed--meaning that is willing spend time and money on the effort.  It would be interesting to know what level of support Notre Dame has provided for such programs.

I am also concerned by CT's report of the Tim Brown conversation.  Even if Notre Dame were doing all it could on rape prevention and academic integrity as a campus--if the football team lives an isolated, privileged, and separate existence from the rest of the student body then the efforts might not register.

By the way, what is Stanford's policy about athletes living on campus in general housing?  I had two football players living on my hall as a frosh in 77.  One of them was not happy about having to live with us, and I was led to believe that Stanford was unusual about having its freshman athletes living and mixing with the general student body.

[81alum]

Rape prevention and academic integrity programs may not prevent any individual case of sexual assault or of cheating, but they do produce measurable results on an overall student body compared with not having such programs.  They take a university that is committed--meaning that is willing spend time and money on the effort.  It would be interesting to know what level of support Notre Dame has provided for such programs.

I am also concerned by CT's report of the Tim Brown conversation.  Even if Notre Dame were doing all it could on rape prevention and academic integrity as a campus--if the football team lives an isolated, privileged, and separate existence from the rest of the student body then the efforts might not register.

By the way, what is Stanford's policy about athletes living on campus in general housing?  I had two football players living on my hall as a frosh in 77.  One of them was not happy about having to live with us, and I was led to believe that Stanford was unusual about having its freshman athletes living and mixing with the general student body.

[Bruce Wang]

... Telling kids not to cheat or rape someone is rather trite, though I understand this sort of thing is repeated regularly in most programs. 

Apparently the University of Sex for Papers needs signs like this:

From Louisville:


and this one from my other alma mater:

[Bruce Wang]

... Telling kids not to cheat or rape someone is rather trite, though I understand this sort of thing is repeated regularly in most programs. 

Apparently the University of Sex for Papers needs signs like this:

From Louisville:


and this one from my other alma mater:

[stupac2]

I don't think I could be a fan of a team that felt a sign like that was necessary or useful. Embarrassing.

[stupac2]

I don't think I could be a fan of a team that felt a sign like that was necessary or useful. Embarrassing.

[scorecard]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=10371.msg94511#msg94511 date=1408287430]
... Telling kids not to cheat or rape someone is rather trite, though I understand this sort of thing is repeated regularly in most programs. 

Apparently the University of Sex for Papers needs signs like this:

[/quote]



Sorry, stupac2, guess you have one more reason not to root for Notre Dame: they already have a sign like that.  Kelly referenced it in his press conference.  I am shocked that the sign didn't work.  I surmise that the kids ignored it because it was in ALL-CAPS, and they already feel like Kelly shouts at them all the time.

Kelly's comment when asked if they were recruiting the right kind of players for the school was also baffling:

"I think we've brought in the right young men.  I think we have to continue to do a better job educating them, we have to do a better job providing them the resources. Look, this is never a one-sided issue. We have to internally look at providing our student-athletes all the resources necessary that if in fact they took shortcuts, that they don't.

What other resources do you need to provide students so that they don't blatantly cheat?  A "paper" class like at UNC?  Better tutors?  I bet those guys thought they already had the best tutors ever until they got caught.  If you recruit the kind of guys who have been coddled throughout their entire academic careers, have no personal integrity and aren't ready to do the work in the classroom, they will always find an easy way out.

[scorecard]

[quote author=CTcard link=topic=10371.msg94511#msg94511 date=1408287430]
... Telling kids not to cheat or rape someone is rather trite, though I understand this sort of thing is repeated regularly in most programs. 

Apparently the University of Sex for Papers needs signs like this:

[/quote]



Sorry, stupac2, guess you have one more reason not to root for Notre Dame: they already have a sign like that.  Kelly referenced it in his press conference.  I am shocked that the sign didn't work.  I surmise that the kids ignored it because it was in ALL-CAPS, and they already feel like Kelly shouts at them all the time.

Kelly's comment when asked if they were recruiting the right kind of players for the school was also baffling:

"I think we've brought in the right young men.  I think we have to continue to do a better job educating them, we have to do a better job providing them the resources. Look, this is never a one-sided issue. We have to internally look at providing our student-athletes all the resources necessary that if in fact they took shortcuts, that they don't.

What other resources do you need to provide students so that they don't blatantly cheat?  A "paper" class like at UNC?  Better tutors?  I bet those guys thought they already had the best tutors ever until they got caught.  If you recruit the kind of guys who have been coddled throughout their entire academic careers, have no personal integrity and aren't ready to do the work in the classroom, they will always find an easy way out.

[StanFan88]

I hear ya CT but at some point the administration has to place responsibility for the football program on the head coach.  I know they rushed to defend him this time, but I have to imagine that either the AD or the President has let Kelly know that he is on thin ice and that he has to get his house in order.  Four very serious incidents in three years is a LOT for ANY program, much less one that still tries to have some element of academic integrity and personal responsibility along with athletic excellence.

[StanFan88]

I hear ya CT but at some point the administration has to place responsibility for the football program on the head coach.  I know they rushed to defend him this time, but I have to imagine that either the AD or the President has let Kelly know that he is on thin ice and that he has to get his house in order.  Four very serious incidents in three years is a LOT for ANY program, much less one that still tries to have some element of academic integrity and personal responsibility along with athletic excellence.

[Spiny_Norman]

Deadspin with a rant that mirrors the frustrations of many that ND's halo never tarnishes.  And this is how they maintain their appeal to high school football players.

It's an amazing little con, isn't it? Here's Notre Dame investigating commonplace academic fraud and somehow using it to distance itself from the rest of the college football-industrial complex. When the Domers don't openly cheat, they're saints. When they get caught, they're saints for owning up to it. They win either way. It's quite the party trick, like overtone singing or auto-analingus.

http://deadspin.com/notre-dame-was-never...1624521480

[Spiny_Norman]

Deadspin with a rant that mirrors the frustrations of many that ND's halo never tarnishes.  And this is how they maintain their appeal to high school football players.

It's an amazing little con, isn't it? Here's Notre Dame investigating commonplace academic fraud and somehow using it to distance itself from the rest of the college football-industrial complex. When the Domers don't openly cheat, they're saints. When they get caught, they're saints for owning up to it. They win either way. It's quite the party trick, like overtone singing or auto-analingus.

http://deadspin.com/notre-dame-was-never...1624521480

[Papa John]

Overtone singing is hardly a party trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-VGQGPpZY

[Papa John]

Overtone singing is hardly a party trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-VGQGPpZY

[washingtonismoney]

Love this tweet: https://twitter.com/AllanGBell/status/50...1702437889

[washingtonismoney]

Love this tweet: https://twitter.com/AllanGBell/status/50...1702437889

[martyup]

Overtone singing is hardly a party trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-VGQGPpZY

Am I missing something, or was this the most random off topic post ever seen on this board?

[martyup]

Overtone singing is hardly a party trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-VGQGPpZY

Am I missing something, or was this the most random off topic post ever seen on this board?

[Rally]

[quote author=Papa John link=topic=10371.msg94887#msg94887 date=1408659031]
Overtone singing is hardly a party trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-VGQGPpZY

Am I missing something, or was this the most random off topic post ever seen on this board?
[/quote]

No, that would be the Dangerous Grounds thread.

[Rally]

[quote author=Papa John link=topic=10371.msg94887#msg94887 date=1408659031]
Overtone singing is hardly a party trick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD-VGQGPpZY

Am I missing something, or was this the most random off topic post ever seen on this board?
[/quote]

No, that would be the Dangerous Grounds thread.

[82 Card]

PapaJohn was responding to Spiny's quote from deadspin. That's normal  course around here.

[82 Card]

PapaJohn was responding to Spiny's quote from deadspin. That's normal  course around here.

[CornFed]

"Overtone singing is hardly a party trick"

Or if it is, its a pretty boring party.

[CornFed]

"Overtone singing is hardly a party trick"

Or if it is, its a pretty boring party.

[martyup]

PapaJohn was responding to Spiny's quote from deadspin. That's normal  course around here.

Got it.  Thank you.  That was always my problem, not reading thoroughly.  I did, however, listen to all three styles of overtone singing.

[martyup]

PapaJohn was responding to Spiny's quote from deadspin. That's normal  course around here.

Got it.  Thank you.  That was always my problem, not reading thoroughly.  I did, however, listen to all three styles of overtone singing.

[washingtonismoney]

Remember the N.D. scandal? Well, looks like they're holding out a fifth, unnamed player: https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/stat...4900361216

[washingtonismoney]

Remember the N.D. scandal? Well, looks like they're holding out a fifth, unnamed player: https://twitter.com/BruceFeldmanCFB/stat...4900361216

[washingtonismoney]

Reportedly Eilar Hardy, a reserve safety: http://notredame.247sports.com/Bolt/Notr...e-30642669

[washingtonismoney]

Reportedly Eilar Hardy, a reserve safety: http://notredame.247sports.com/Bolt/Notr...e-30642669

[StannyBoy]

A 5th player is now under investigation.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-continues

[StannyBoy]

A 5th player is now under investigation.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-continues