[terry]

Today's round is in the early stages, but at this point, it looks like 6 teams are fighting for 5 spots. The top 6 teams are 8 strokes apart, with Stanford leading. Then there's a 12 stroke gap before you get to the rest of the field.

[terry]

Today's round is in the early stages, but at this point, it looks like 6 teams are fighting for 5 spots. The top 6 teams are 8 strokes apart, with Stanford leading. Then there's a 12 stroke gap before you get to the rest of the field.

[CornFed]

And Maverick's lead in the individual championship is down to one.  Through four.  Closest competitor is through two.

[CornFed]

And Maverick's lead in the individual championship is down to one.  Through four.  Closest competitor is through two.

[BigEasyCard]

Cardinal in second place at -15 for tournament through 10 holes today.  Sixth place team is at -1, so advancement seems assured.

Geaux Cardinal!

[BigEasyCard]

Cardinal in second place at -15 for tournament through 10 holes today.  Sixth place team is at -1, so advancement seems assured.

Geaux Cardinal!

[oldalum]

The 5-team line is basically established: the 5th place team has 7 shots on #6 with essentially only 1 hole left to play.
McNealy leads the field by one with 6 holes to play.

[oldalum]

The 5-team line is basically established: the 5th place team has 7 shots on #6 with essentially only 1 hole left to play.
McNealy leads the field by one with 6 holes to play.

[BobK]

Easily on to the finals.

[BobK]

Easily on to the finals.

[Viking_Guy]

One other good thing: the third-place competitor in the Directors' Cup is probably going to be UNC.  They finshed eighth and failed to qualify for the finals playing on what I believe is their home course (UNC Finlay Course, listed as Chapel Hill).

VG

[Viking_Guy]

One other good thing: the third-place competitor in the Directors' Cup is probably going to be UNC.  They finshed eighth and failed to qualify for the finals playing on what I believe is their home course (UNC Finlay Course, listed as Chapel Hill).

VG

[BigEasyCard]

One other good thing: the third-place competitor in the Directors' Cup is probably going to be UNC.  They finshed eighth and failed to qualify for the finals playing on what I believe is their home course (UNC Finlay Course, listed as Chapel Hill).

VG

In Women's Tennis, UNC and UCLA face off in a quarterfinal match tomorrow at 1 EDT.  Rooting for the Tar Heels in this one.

[BigEasyCard]

One other good thing: the third-place competitor in the Directors' Cup is probably going to be UNC.  They finshed eighth and failed to qualify for the finals playing on what I believe is their home course (UNC Finlay Course, listed as Chapel Hill).

VG

In Women's Tennis, UNC and UCLA face off in a quarterfinal match tomorrow at 1 EDT.  Rooting for the Tar Heels in this one.

[Viking_Guy]

Especially since their men's tennis team just lost in the quarterfinals.

The other thing I'm rooting for is quick losses for $C; their men's tennis is playing Baylor right now, and their #1 ranked women play Baylor tomorrow, both in Waco.  No team championships for the Toejams would be nice; I've been getting worried about their closing the gap in the standings as we try to overtake the Bruins.

VG

[Viking_Guy]

Especially since their men's tennis team just lost in the quarterfinals.

The other thing I'm rooting for is quick losses for $C; their men's tennis is playing Baylor right now, and their #1 ranked women play Baylor tomorrow, both in Waco.  No team championships for the Toejams would be nice; I've been getting worried about their closing the gap in the standings as we try to overtake the Bruins.

VG

[Hulk01]

We could do well at the NCAA.  We're wicked at four and five right now, and have the nation's number one at number one.  Boote and Bahdwar are going hot and cold, but on their hot days can win at two and three. 

Once more: I've never seen an athlete make the leap that Maverick has made over the last nine months. 

[Hulk01]

We could do well at the NCAA.  We're wicked at four and five right now, and have the nation's number one at number one.  Boote and Bahdwar are going hot and cold, but on their hot days can win at two and three. 

Once more: I've never seen an athlete make the leap that Maverick has made over the last nine months. 

[CornFed]

There was a great discussion in a segment on Golf Central with Notah Begay, which addressed at some length the very improvement that you are highlighting, Hulk.  Notah mentioned that Patrick Rodgers should be credited with the transformation in Maverick.  He set an impeccable example of work, organization, setting priorities, etc. and took the younger player under his wing.  Notah said that Tiger had done the same as a FRESHMAN with his teammate who were all upperclassmen.

Speaking of Patrick Rodgers, what a great tournament he had this weekend!  Finished tied for second.  Made $700K+, although a little bit short of what he needs for an exemption to get on Tour.  As I said elsewhere, what a wonderful period for Stanford golf.  John Brodie and Tom Watson were fading from people's everyday consciousness, but now w/ Tiger, Michelle and hopefully Patrick Rodgers, Stanford has prominently landed on the radar screen of the golf world.

[CornFed]

There was a great discussion in a segment on Golf Central with Notah Begay, which addressed at some length the very improvement that you are highlighting, Hulk.  Notah mentioned that Patrick Rodgers should be credited with the transformation in Maverick.  He set an impeccable example of work, organization, setting priorities, etc. and took the younger player under his wing.  Notah said that Tiger had done the same as a FRESHMAN with his teammate who were all upperclassmen.

Speaking of Patrick Rodgers, what a great tournament he had this weekend!  Finished tied for second.  Made $700K+, although a little bit short of what he needs for an exemption to get on Tour.  As I said elsewhere, what a wonderful period for Stanford golf.  John Brodie and Tom Watson were fading from people's everyday consciousness, but now w/ Tiger, Michelle and hopefully Patrick Rodgers, Stanford has prominently landed on the radar screen of the golf world.

[winflop]

I think $700K should be enough to be in the top 150 on the money list, which IIRC is what is required to get your card for the next year.

[winflop]

I think $700K should be enough to be in the top 150 on the money list, which IIRC is what is required to get your card for the next year.

[Stymie]

Great result for Patrick.  If he hadn't dropped 4 shots on the last 3 holes he would have had a year long free pass on the PGA tour.  He does get 3 free passes over the next 3 week (including the Colonial and the Memorial) and if he keeps playing like this, he'll be on the tour full-time sooner rather than later.

[Stymie]

Great result for Patrick.  If he hadn't dropped 4 shots on the last 3 holes he would have had a year long free pass on the PGA tour.  He does get 3 free passes over the next 3 week (including the Colonial and the Memorial) and if he keeps playing like this, he'll be on the tour full-time sooner rather than later.

[Spiny_Norman]

Last evening, Jon Rahm from ASU was awarded the Ben Hogan Award as the top player in the country.  Other finalists were Cheng-Tsung Pan from Washington and  Maverick McNealy.  Patrick Rodgers won the award last year.

Maybe Maverick puts a chip on his shoulder and uses it as motivation at the NCAAs next week.  It would be fantastic if he and Rahm had a chance to go head-to-head in the match play portion of the competition.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/18/ben...-jon-rahm/

[Spiny_Norman]

Last evening, Jon Rahm from ASU was awarded the Ben Hogan Award as the top player in the country.  Other finalists were Cheng-Tsung Pan from Washington and  Maverick McNealy.  Patrick Rodgers won the award last year.

Maybe Maverick puts a chip on his shoulder and uses it as motivation at the NCAAs next week.  It would be fantastic if he and Rahm had a chance to go head-to-head in the match play portion of the competition.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/18/ben...-jon-rahm/

[slide]

Last evening, Jon Rahm from ASU was awarded the Ben Hogan Award as the top player in the country.  Other finalists were Cheng-Tsung Pan from Washington and  Maverick McNealy.  Patrick Rodgers won the award last year.

Maybe Maverick puts a chip on his shoulder and uses it as motivation at the NCAAs next week.  It would be fantastic if he and Rahm had a chance to go head-to-head in the match play portion of the competition.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/18/ben...-jon-rahm/

very odd to name a winner who has fewer wins, a worse stroke average and no head to head wins against the 2nd place finisher.

[slide]

Last evening, Jon Rahm from ASU was awarded the Ben Hogan Award as the top player in the country.  Other finalists were Cheng-Tsung Pan from Washington and  Maverick McNealy.  Patrick Rodgers won the award last year.

Maybe Maverick puts a chip on his shoulder and uses it as motivation at the NCAAs next week.  It would be fantastic if he and Rahm had a chance to go head-to-head in the match play portion of the competition.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/18/ben...-jon-rahm/

very odd to name a winner who has fewer wins, a worse stroke average and no head to head wins against the 2nd place finisher.

[Mick]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=12138.msg118613#msg118613 date=1432053858]
Last evening, Jon Rahm from ASU was awarded the Ben Hogan Award as the top player in the country.  Other finalists were Cheng-Tsung Pan from Washington and  Maverick McNealy.  Patrick Rodgers won the award last year.

Maybe Maverick puts a chip on his shoulder and uses it as motivation at the NCAAs next week.  It would be fantastic if he and Rahm had a chance to go head-to-head in the match play portion of the competition.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/18/ben...-jon-rahm/

very odd to name a winner who has fewer wins, a worse stroke average and no head to head wins against the 2nd place finisher.
[/quote]

Those things happen sometimes.  It's not as if Rahm was a hack, he had the second best stroke average.  But I do wonder when I see a player get an award undeservingly.  Marty Marion won the MVP with a .267 average, 6 home runs and 67 RBIs.  Those numbers placed him seventh, seventh and sixth...on his own team.  Stan Musial that year hit .347 with 51 doubles, 12 home runs and 94 RBIs.  In the American League, Ted Williams batted .406 in 1941, but DiMaggio had the 56 game hitting streak and the Yankees won the pennant.  So DiMaggio won it. 

Wilt Chamberlain won the MVP his rookie year (1959-1960) but didn't win another MVP until 1966.  From the 1960/61 to 1964/5, Chamberlain led the league in scoring AND rebounds three times.  No MVPs.  And in 1961/62, he averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg...but no MVP.  The next year, he averaged 44.8 ppg and 24.3 rebounds...and he didn't even make first team NBA!  He was 7th in MVP voting that year.  Bill Russell won the MVP four of those five years, the Big O won it the other year.  Russell didn't have as many points or rebounds as Chamberlain in any of those years. 

[Mick]

[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=12138.msg118613#msg118613 date=1432053858]
Last evening, Jon Rahm from ASU was awarded the Ben Hogan Award as the top player in the country.  Other finalists were Cheng-Tsung Pan from Washington and  Maverick McNealy.  Patrick Rodgers won the award last year.

Maybe Maverick puts a chip on his shoulder and uses it as motivation at the NCAAs next week.  It would be fantastic if he and Rahm had a chance to go head-to-head in the match play portion of the competition.

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/may/18/ben...-jon-rahm/

very odd to name a winner who has fewer wins, a worse stroke average and no head to head wins against the 2nd place finisher.
[/quote]

Those things happen sometimes.  It's not as if Rahm was a hack, he had the second best stroke average.  But I do wonder when I see a player get an award undeservingly.  Marty Marion won the MVP with a .267 average, 6 home runs and 67 RBIs.  Those numbers placed him seventh, seventh and sixth...on his own team.  Stan Musial that year hit .347 with 51 doubles, 12 home runs and 94 RBIs.  In the American League, Ted Williams batted .406 in 1941, but DiMaggio had the 56 game hitting streak and the Yankees won the pennant.  So DiMaggio won it. 

Wilt Chamberlain won the MVP his rookie year (1959-1960) but didn't win another MVP until 1966.  From the 1960/61 to 1964/5, Chamberlain led the league in scoring AND rebounds three times.  No MVPs.  And in 1961/62, he averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg...but no MVP.  The next year, he averaged 44.8 ppg and 24.3 rebounds...and he didn't even make first team NBA!  He was 7th in MVP voting that year.  Bill Russell won the MVP four of those five years, the Big O won it the other year.  Russell didn't have as many points or rebounds as Chamberlain in any of those years. 

[CornFed]

[size=1em]Russell didn't have as many points or rebounds as Chamberlain in any of those years[/size]."

[size=1em]
But he contained Chamberlain when it counted[/size]

[CornFed]

[size=1em]Russell didn't have as many points or rebounds as Chamberlain in any of those years[/size]."

[size=1em]
But he contained Chamberlain when it counted[/size]

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=12138.msg118631#msg118631 date=1432069201][size=1em]Russell didn't have as many points or rebounds as Chamberlain in any of those years[/size]."

[size=1em]
But he contained Chamberlain when it counted[/size]
[/quote]

I don't think it was that, so much as it was that the Celtics had a much better supporting cast over the years and Red Auerbach.  In the playoffs, Chamberlain and Russell were essentially identical in rebounding (24.5 vs. 24.9 per game, respectively), Russell had a slight lead in assists (4.2 vs. 4.7 per game) but Chamberlain stomped on Russell in scoring (22.5 vs. 16.2).  It was Russell's supporting cast and coaching that was so much stronger.  Take one of the last games of the 1962 season as typical.  The 48-30 Warriors got smoked by the 56-20 Celtics.  Chamberlain scored 30 and Russell scored 21.  But of the rest of the Warriors, Attles scored 23 and Paul Arizin scored 14.  No one else got to double figures, and you've barely heard of the rest of their players (maybe Tom Meschery and Guy Rodgers).  The Celtic box score was Russell 21, Frank Ramsey 21, Sam Jones 23, KC Jones 14, Cousy 14, Heinsohn 17, KC Jones 13, Jungle Jim Luscutoff 12, Braun had 10 and rookie Tom Sanders from NYU had 9.  They made 35 free throws, W's made 16.  Better team.  When I envision Bill Russell's MVP photo, he should have been surrounded by Cousy, the Jones', Heinsohn, Ramsey, etc., like Nash's MVP photos.
As for coaching?  Red Auerbach coached the Celtics from 1950 to 1966, a time during which Russell won his 4 MVPs and Chamberlain won just one.  In that time frame, the Warriors had seven coaches, four of them serving during Chamberlain's 1959-1966 seasons.

In that 1961/1962 season, the Celtics were 8-4 against the warriors during regular season.  the playoffs were 4-3 in the East finals, in which the home game won every single game.

[Mick]

[quote author=Mick link=topic=12138.msg118631#msg118631 date=1432069201][size=1em]Russell didn't have as many points or rebounds as Chamberlain in any of those years[/size]."

[size=1em]
But he contained Chamberlain when it counted[/size]
[/quote]

I don't think it was that, so much as it was that the Celtics had a much better supporting cast over the years and Red Auerbach.  In the playoffs, Chamberlain and Russell were essentially identical in rebounding (24.5 vs. 24.9 per game, respectively), Russell had a slight lead in assists (4.2 vs. 4.7 per game) but Chamberlain stomped on Russell in scoring (22.5 vs. 16.2).  It was Russell's supporting cast and coaching that was so much stronger.  Take one of the last games of the 1962 season as typical.  The 48-30 Warriors got smoked by the 56-20 Celtics.  Chamberlain scored 30 and Russell scored 21.  But of the rest of the Warriors, Attles scored 23 and Paul Arizin scored 14.  No one else got to double figures, and you've barely heard of the rest of their players (maybe Tom Meschery and Guy Rodgers).  The Celtic box score was Russell 21, Frank Ramsey 21, Sam Jones 23, KC Jones 14, Cousy 14, Heinsohn 17, KC Jones 13, Jungle Jim Luscutoff 12, Braun had 10 and rookie Tom Sanders from NYU had 9.  They made 35 free throws, W's made 16.  Better team.  When I envision Bill Russell's MVP photo, he should have been surrounded by Cousy, the Jones', Heinsohn, Ramsey, etc., like Nash's MVP photos.
As for coaching?  Red Auerbach coached the Celtics from 1950 to 1966, a time during which Russell won his 4 MVPs and Chamberlain won just one.  In that time frame, the Warriors had seven coaches, four of them serving during Chamberlain's 1959-1966 seasons.

In that 1961/1962 season, the Celtics were 8-4 against the warriors during regular season.  the playoffs were 4-3 in the East finals, in which the home game won every single game.

[CornFed]

Absolutely true that Russell had a much better set of players around him.  But your fixation on offensive stats diminishes the excellence of Russell's performance against Chamberlain one-on-one.  In no way do I wish to denigrate Wilt's legendary dominance.  It is just that Russell consistently mitigated his impact and allowed the superior talent of the Celtics to prevail.  I am not finding blocks or steals numbers on basketball-reference.com, but I think it would be statistics like those that strengthened Russell's case to be MVP.  He gave up three inches and very considerable bulk to Chamberlain, yet kept him contained whenever they met.  In the game you mention, Wilt was held to less than two-thirds of his average point production and was well under his average in rebounds.


And ultimately, how much value can one be said to have on a team that goes nowhere.  I think Russell was a deserving MVP, although I agree with you that it is shocking that Wilt did not have more.

[CornFed]

Absolutely true that Russell had a much better set of players around him.  But your fixation on offensive stats diminishes the excellence of Russell's performance against Chamberlain one-on-one.  In no way do I wish to denigrate Wilt's legendary dominance.  It is just that Russell consistently mitigated his impact and allowed the superior talent of the Celtics to prevail.  I am not finding blocks or steals numbers on basketball-reference.com, but I think it would be statistics like those that strengthened Russell's case to be MVP.  He gave up three inches and very considerable bulk to Chamberlain, yet kept him contained whenever they met.  In the game you mention, Wilt was held to less than two-thirds of his average point production and was well under his average in rebounds.


And ultimately, how much value can one be said to have on a team that goes nowhere.  I think Russell was a deserving MVP, although I agree with you that it is shocking that Wilt did not have more.

[Hulk01]

Wilt's consolation, of course, was that he had so much more fun. 

[Hulk01]

Wilt's consolation, of course, was that he had so much more fun. 

[Hulk01]

The voters considered Rahm's three year career, which included first team All Pac 12 honors last year.  (Maverick only cracked Stanford's starting lineup at mid season.) 

[Hulk01]

The voters considered Rahm's three year career, which included first team All Pac 12 honors last year.  (Maverick only cracked Stanford's starting lineup at mid season.)