[winflop]

One thought on Haase today: we're getting killed on plays where we double team a big on the baseline.  OSU was really well prepared for this, and they're getting open shots.  No team is surprised by the double team anymore, and Haase needs to drop it.  Heck, we have a bunch of guys who are great at man to man defense.  Let them do their thing.

The team had far, far too many turnovers in the second half, and that's why they lost.

I didn't say that double teaming cost us the game.  It's just a bad strategy and I'm sick of watching us scramble to cover wide open guys.  There's a good argument to be made that double teaming did cost us some of the closer games.  Not today obviously.

Double teams are most effective when you do it sometimes. But sometimes it's really good to bluff it and then step back into a passing lane.

But that's playing chess and Haase seems to be playing checkers.

[winflop]

One thought on Haase today: we're getting killed on plays where we double team a big on the baseline.  OSU was really well prepared for this, and they're getting open shots.  No team is surprised by the double team anymore, and Haase needs to drop it.  Heck, we have a bunch of guys who are great at man to man defense.  Let them do their thing.

The team had far, far too many turnovers in the second half, and that's why they lost.

I didn't say that double teaming cost us the game.  It's just a bad strategy and I'm sick of watching us scramble to cover wide open guys.  There's a good argument to be made that double teaming did cost us some of the closer games.  Not today obviously.

Double teams are most effective when you do it sometimes. But sometimes it's really good to bluff it and then step back into a passing lane.

But that's playing chess and Haase seems to be playing checkers.

[BobK]

Wow. Maybe you don’t watch basketball much but what you described the coaches getting together is very common and normal.
No coaches conversing is not causing turnovers nor poor defense nor missed shots

[BobK]

Wow. Maybe you don’t watch basketball much but what you described the coaches getting together is very common and normal.
No coaches conversing is not causing turnovers nor poor defense nor missed shots

[VB Card]

I don't know enough about the inner workings and competencies of Stanford's MBB coaches, but I hold two beliefs based on what I can gather:

1. Mark Fox would win more games with Stanford's roster.

2. Haase needs to improve the quality of his assistant coaches.

Everyone has seen really bad coaching decisions, but in the brief glimpse I saw of the ending of the Oregon game, I saw something really alarming. There was a timeout called in the final minute. Stanford's assistants were all together near midcourt - to me looking like nobody knew what they were doing - while the players were all sitting, waiting for someone to lead and direct them. After 30 seconds, the coaches all walked over to the players, with Haase taking out the erase board.  

I've never seen something that visually made me think a coaching staff was unprepared before, in any sport, but there it was, for everyone watching to see on Stanford's home floor, with Stanford basketball coaches. Hardly surprising the players failed to execute any winning plays down the stretch. And I still think the WSU disaster was a firable offense.

 

Mark Fox? The guy who made the tournament twice in 8 years at Georgia and never won a tourney game there? Got fired and ended up at Cal because no other school wanted him. Yea... no thank you.

[VB Card]

I don't know enough about the inner workings and competencies of Stanford's MBB coaches, but I hold two beliefs based on what I can gather:

1. Mark Fox would win more games with Stanford's roster.

2. Haase needs to improve the quality of his assistant coaches.

Everyone has seen really bad coaching decisions, but in the brief glimpse I saw of the ending of the Oregon game, I saw something really alarming. There was a timeout called in the final minute. Stanford's assistants were all together near midcourt - to me looking like nobody knew what they were doing - while the players were all sitting, waiting for someone to lead and direct them. After 30 seconds, the coaches all walked over to the players, with Haase taking out the erase board.  

I've never seen something that visually made me think a coaching staff was unprepared before, in any sport, but there it was, for everyone watching to see on Stanford's home floor, with Stanford basketball coaches. Hardly surprising the players failed to execute any winning plays down the stretch. And I still think the WSU disaster was a firable offense.

 

Mark Fox? The guy who made the tournament twice in 8 years at Georgia and never won a tourney game there? Got fired and ended up at Cal because no other school wanted him. Yea... no thank you.

[BobK]

Lol OF gets on a rant and gets confused
Probably meant Mark Few LOL LOL
If he means the cal coach beyond strange

[BobK]

Lol OF gets on a rant and gets confused
Probably meant Mark Few LOL LOL
If he means the cal coach beyond strange

[winflop]

I don't know enough about the inner workings and competencies of Stanford's MBB coaches, but I hold two beliefs based on what I can gather:

1. Mark Fox would win more games with Stanford's roster.

2. Haase needs to improve the quality of his assistant coaches.

Everyone has seen really bad coaching decisions, but in the brief glimpse I saw of the ending of the Oregon game, I saw something really alarming. There was a timeout called in the final minute. Stanford's assistants were all together near midcourt - to me looking like nobody knew what they were doing - while the players were all sitting, waiting for someone to lead and direct them. After 30 seconds, the coaches all walked over to the players, with Haase taking out the erase board.  

I've never seen something that visually made me think a coaching staff was unprepared before, in any sport, but there it was, for everyone watching to see on Stanford's home floor, with Stanford basketball coaches. Hardly surprising the players failed to execute any winning plays down the stretch. And I still think the WSU disaster was a firable offense.

 

Mark Fox? The guy who made the tournament twice in 8 years at Georgia and never won a tourney game there? Got fired and ended up at Cal because no other school wanted him. Yea... no thank you.

I'm guessing he means Mark Few at Gonzaga. Why in the world would he take a big step down to come here?

Muir's not going to get interest from any major conference HC. He's gonna have to find an up and coming HC from a mid-major, and even that might be a challenge. This just isn't a prime time job (any more). He needs to hire a turnaround specialist

[winflop]

I don't know enough about the inner workings and competencies of Stanford's MBB coaches, but I hold two beliefs based on what I can gather:

1. Mark Fox would win more games with Stanford's roster.

2. Haase needs to improve the quality of his assistant coaches.

Everyone has seen really bad coaching decisions, but in the brief glimpse I saw of the ending of the Oregon game, I saw something really alarming. There was a timeout called in the final minute. Stanford's assistants were all together near midcourt - to me looking like nobody knew what they were doing - while the players were all sitting, waiting for someone to lead and direct them. After 30 seconds, the coaches all walked over to the players, with Haase taking out the erase board.  

I've never seen something that visually made me think a coaching staff was unprepared before, in any sport, but there it was, for everyone watching to see on Stanford's home floor, with Stanford basketball coaches. Hardly surprising the players failed to execute any winning plays down the stretch. And I still think the WSU disaster was a firable offense.

 

Mark Fox? The guy who made the tournament twice in 8 years at Georgia and never won a tourney game there? Got fired and ended up at Cal because no other school wanted him. Yea... no thank you.

I'm guessing he means Mark Few at Gonzaga. Why in the world would he take a big step down to come here?

Muir's not going to get interest from any major conference HC. He's gonna have to find an up and coming HC from a mid-major, and even that might be a challenge. This just isn't a prime time job (any more). He needs to hire a turnaround specialist

[BobK]

A mid major like oh where Haase came from?
Of course worked once

[BobK]

A mid major like oh where Haase came from?
Of course worked once

[OutsiderFan]

You guys really are one-track minded.

I never suggested Stanford should hire Mark Fox. But I absolutely believe he's a better game coach than Haase has proven to be. Cal is severely limited by talent. When I have seen them play I never think the coaching is terrible like when I watch Stanford.

As for the meeting at midcourt without the players, I've never seen it. Maybe it happens all the time, but that doesn't change my opinion about Stanford MBB having a sub-par coaching staff.

[OutsiderFan]

You guys really are one-track minded.

I never suggested Stanford should hire Mark Fox. But I absolutely believe he's a better game coach than Haase has proven to be. Cal is severely limited by talent. When I have seen them play I never think the coaching is terrible like when I watch Stanford.

As for the meeting at midcourt without the players, I've never seen it. Maybe it happens all the time, but that doesn't change my opinion about Stanford MBB having a sub-par coaching staff.

[old spanish trail]

Davis didn't play because Haase wanted "more cohesion." That worked real well too. Count me unimpressed.

[old spanish trail]

Davis didn't play because Haase wanted "more cohesion." That worked real well too. Count me unimpressed.

[BostonCard]

Fox is indistinguishable from Cuonzo Martin and Wyking Jones... as Haase appears indistinguishable from Dawkins.  There are a lot of just more or less interchangeable college basketball coaches out there.

Maybe Fox will turn out to be a good hire, but probably not.

BC

[BostonCard]

Fox is indistinguishable from Cuonzo Martin and Wyking Jones... as Haase appears indistinguishable from Dawkins.  There are a lot of just more or less interchangeable college basketball coaches out there.

Maybe Fox will turn out to be a good hire, but probably not.

BC

[pefloresjr]

Haase said it was coach's decision not to play Davis in 2nd half. That worked real well.

---

Davis didn't play because Haase wanted "more cohesion." That worked real well too. Count me unimpressed.

Unless this was a discipline issue, I can't begin to understand this decision.  And on Davis' senior day, too :(

Despite the end of the 2019-2020 season. I was a Haase supporter then.  I'm in the other column now.  Not that it matters to Muir...

I hate to admit it but I kind of gave up on the team's chances with the loss to WSU.  I watched the Oregon game but with mostly a sense of unhappiness because I was sure we would find a way to lose.  I actually think the team responded well to the loss of da Silva but never felt the joy I usually would when we were close to an upset in trying circumstances.  Team unity and effort along with having to play on the road with limited practice are some of the reasons I haven't been real focused on Haase's weaknesses this season.  He seems to have a great relationship with his team.  

I chose not to watch today but checked the score at the half and after the game.  Reading that Haase essentially benched Davis for the second half is really concerning.  It's a sign that either Haase doesn't have a clue about how to use his talented players or Davis decided to do things his own way because he's lost faith in Haase's coaching.  If Davis has lost faith, I worry that some others have as well.  This could be a sign of the team unity breaking down.  It might just be the frustration of a really difficult season under extremely trying circumstances but it could be a sign of larger problems to come.  If Davis crossed the line, I think it is important for Haase to make it clear that he is in charge and keep those players who are also on board with him.  I truly hope this is just evidence of frustration with the way the season is ending by a competitive player.  I don't want to see one of the team strengths under Haase disappear because I think he will be given two more years before Muir would make a move.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

Haase said it was coach's decision not to play Davis in 2nd half. That worked real well.

---

Davis didn't play because Haase wanted "more cohesion." That worked real well too. Count me unimpressed.

Unless this was a discipline issue, I can't begin to understand this decision.  And on Davis' senior day, too :(

Despite the end of the 2019-2020 season. I was a Haase supporter then.  I'm in the other column now.  Not that it matters to Muir...

I hate to admit it but I kind of gave up on the team's chances with the loss to WSU.  I watched the Oregon game but with mostly a sense of unhappiness because I was sure we would find a way to lose.  I actually think the team responded well to the loss of da Silva but never felt the joy I usually would when we were close to an upset in trying circumstances.  Team unity and effort along with having to play on the road with limited practice are some of the reasons I haven't been real focused on Haase's weaknesses this season.  He seems to have a great relationship with his team.  

I chose not to watch today but checked the score at the half and after the game.  Reading that Haase essentially benched Davis for the second half is really concerning.  It's a sign that either Haase doesn't have a clue about how to use his talented players or Davis decided to do things his own way because he's lost faith in Haase's coaching.  If Davis has lost faith, I worry that some others have as well.  This could be a sign of the team unity breaking down.  It might just be the frustration of a really difficult season under extremely trying circumstances but it could be a sign of larger problems to come.  If Davis crossed the line, I think it is important for Haase to make it clear that he is in charge and keep those players who are also on board with him.  I truly hope this is just evidence of frustration with the way the season is ending by a competitive player.  I don't want to see one of the team strengths under Haase disappear because I think he will be given two more years before Muir would make a move.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[Phogge]

Remo Gaggi: “Look... why take a chance?”

Why wait, he has plateaued. Replace him immediately.

[Phogge]

Remo Gaggi: “Look... why take a chance?”

Why wait, he has plateaued. Replace him immediately.

[BobK]

Phogge we need some of your millions for the buy out

[BobK]

Phogge we need some of your millions for the buy out

[Phogge]

Gee I'd have to sell all my Arabians and give up the G5 but I'll look into it.

BTW, did anybody watch Essential Quality slaughter Jackie's Warrior yesterday?

[Phogge]

Gee I'd have to sell all my Arabians and give up the G5 but I'll look into it.

BTW, did anybody watch Essential Quality slaughter Jackie's Warrior yesterday?

[AlbanyCardinal]

The WSU game was a real turning point, indeed, Pete. Yes, Haase's teams had fallen apart late in the season before, losing games they should've won, but why would he bench ZW in the second half (including OT), when Stanford's depth was under such duress? Why did he not call for his players to foul when up 3 at the end of regulation? Fast forward to yesterday's matchup and Haase's equally strange second-half benching of DD, and the optics are even worse. Daejon has been the face of Haase's program since he arrived. He's the first Haase recruit I remember getting excited about. He's been a selfless team player and captain, playing out of position for a while to help the team, cheering his teammates on when injured and other times carrying the team on his back. Based on what we know, it's hard to imagine much of anything that would justify Haase's call here. 

One of the last things Haase seemed to have going for him was recruiting and team morale. The players seemed to buy in, he's been seen as a player's coach, there was talk of a family-like atmosphere, etc. If even that's eroded, then I'm not sure what ground he has to stand on at this point. Bummer is an understatement. This program will stagnate for a lot longer than any of us hoped if Stanford is stuck with him for a few more years (and this schitt continues) or he gets canned sooner than later and Stanford has to pay through the nose (again).

[AlbanyCardinal]

The WSU game was a real turning point, indeed, Pete. Yes, Haase's teams had fallen apart late in the season before, losing games they should've won, but why would he bench ZW in the second half (including OT), when Stanford's depth was under such duress? Why did he not call for his players to foul when up 3 at the end of regulation? Fast forward to yesterday's matchup and Haase's equally strange second-half benching of DD, and the optics are even worse. Daejon has been the face of Haase's program since he arrived. He's the first Haase recruit I remember getting excited about. He's been a selfless team player and captain, playing out of position for a while to help the team, cheering his teammates on when injured and other times carrying the team on his back. Based on what we know, it's hard to imagine much of anything that would justify Haase's call here. 

One of the last things Haase seemed to have going for him was recruiting and team morale. The players seemed to buy in, he's been seen as a player's coach, there was talk of a family-like atmosphere, etc. If even that's eroded, then I'm not sure what ground he has to stand on at this point. Bummer is an understatement. This program will stagnate for a lot longer than any of us hoped if Stanford is stuck with him for a few more years (and this schitt continues) or he gets canned sooner than later and Stanford has to pay through the nose (again).

[donkey687]

It seems like we have a recent trend going back to the Dawkins days of Stanford finishing the season with a whimper and going from a bubble team to a team out of the tournament.  This clearly is not a good reflection of our coaching but the reality of our roster with less turnover may be the cause.  Transfers are becoming so prevalent that roster turnover is extremely high in college basketball.  Stanford's roster turnover is much lower. Thus, Stanford has a continuity advantage at the beginning of the season which goes away as the season progresses. Other teams get better and gel while Stanford stagnates.  That is my theory.

I also think that Stanford benefited this year by the Santa Clara county mandated road trip adventure. It helped bring focus to the team and keep it together. The team's performance has declined since we returned to Maples.  It also shows how valuable Oscar is.  We lose Davis, Wills and Williams for an extended period and the team didn't skip a beat and maybe even played better. We lose Oscar for a couple games and we crap the bed. He is very solid. 

On another note, it is perplexing to me that Williams is a lottery pick.  I would not make a good NBA scout as my eyeball would say that Delaire is a better prospect than Williams.  I remember feeling the same way about Russel Westbrook and Zach Lavine however after a less than impressive freshman years at UCLA so it shows you what I know.

[donkey687]

It seems like we have a recent trend going back to the Dawkins days of Stanford finishing the season with a whimper and going from a bubble team to a team out of the tournament.  This clearly is not a good reflection of our coaching but the reality of our roster with less turnover may be the cause.  Transfers are becoming so prevalent that roster turnover is extremely high in college basketball.  Stanford's roster turnover is much lower. Thus, Stanford has a continuity advantage at the beginning of the season which goes away as the season progresses. Other teams get better and gel while Stanford stagnates.  That is my theory.

I also think that Stanford benefited this year by the Santa Clara county mandated road trip adventure. It helped bring focus to the team and keep it together. The team's performance has declined since we returned to Maples.  It also shows how valuable Oscar is.  We lose Davis, Wills and Williams for an extended period and the team didn't skip a beat and maybe even played better. We lose Oscar for a couple games and we crap the bed. He is very solid. 

On another note, it is perplexing to me that Williams is a lottery pick.  I would not make a good NBA scout as my eyeball would say that Delaire is a better prospect than Williams.  I remember feeling the same way about Russel Westbrook and Zach Lavine however after a less than impressive freshman years at UCLA so it shows you what I know.

[Brickcity]

It seems like we have a recent trend going back to the Dawkins days of Stanford finishing the season with a whimper and going from a bubble team to a team out of the tournament.  This clearly is not a good reflection of our coaching but the reality of our roster with less turnover may be the cause.  Transfers are becoming so prevalent that roster turnover is extremely high in college basketball.  Stanford's roster turnover is much lower. Thus, Stanford has a continuity advantage at the beginning of the season which goes away as the season progresses. Other teams get better and gel while Stanford stagnates.  That is my theory.

I also think that Stanford benefited this year by the Santa Clara county mandated road trip adventure. It helped bring focus to the team and keep it together. The team's performance has declined since we returned to Maples.  It also shows how valuable Oscar is.  We lose Davis, Wills and Williams for an extended period and the team didn't skip a beat and maybe even played better. We lose Oscar for a couple games and we crap the bed. He is very solid. 

On another note, it is perplexing to me that Williams is a lottery pick.  I would not make a good NBA scout as my eyeball would say that Delaire is a better prospect than Williams.  I remember feeling the same way about Russel Westbrook and Zach Lavine however after a less than impressive freshman years at UCLA so it shows you what I know.

No question the inability for Stanford coaches to recruit transfers hurts. Re Williams, I can see the brobdingnagian upside - we saw it yesterday (in a brief spurt) and it strikes me as a lot higher than Delaire's. That said, Delaire is currently the better player and Williams has a LOT of improving to do before he becomes a rotation player in the NBA. Hell, in terms of output, he's a pretty average wing in the conference right now. Unfortunately, he'll still probably bolt after this season.

[Brickcity]

It seems like we have a recent trend going back to the Dawkins days of Stanford finishing the season with a whimper and going from a bubble team to a team out of the tournament.  This clearly is not a good reflection of our coaching but the reality of our roster with less turnover may be the cause.  Transfers are becoming so prevalent that roster turnover is extremely high in college basketball.  Stanford's roster turnover is much lower. Thus, Stanford has a continuity advantage at the beginning of the season which goes away as the season progresses. Other teams get better and gel while Stanford stagnates.  That is my theory.

I also think that Stanford benefited this year by the Santa Clara county mandated road trip adventure. It helped bring focus to the team and keep it together. The team's performance has declined since we returned to Maples.  It also shows how valuable Oscar is.  We lose Davis, Wills and Williams for an extended period and the team didn't skip a beat and maybe even played better. We lose Oscar for a couple games and we crap the bed. He is very solid. 

On another note, it is perplexing to me that Williams is a lottery pick.  I would not make a good NBA scout as my eyeball would say that Delaire is a better prospect than Williams.  I remember feeling the same way about Russel Westbrook and Zach Lavine however after a less than impressive freshman years at UCLA so it shows you what I know.

No question the inability for Stanford coaches to recruit transfers hurts. Re Williams, I can see the brobdingnagian upside - we saw it yesterday (in a brief spurt) and it strikes me as a lot higher than Delaire's. That said, Delaire is currently the better player and Williams has a LOT of improving to do before he becomes a rotation player in the NBA. Hell, in terms of output, he's a pretty average wing in the conference right now. Unfortunately, he'll still probably bolt after this season.

[Treebound]

I too, think Williams should stay for another season to mature mentally, get strong and work on his game.     It was very unfortunate that Da Silva was out for this game and I want to know what happened to Davis in the second half?     As for Haase, Muir will give us all the same "there were too many injuries this year, and that's unfortunate." excuse.   This should have been the make or break year.    I can't speak to the quality of Haase's assistants, but the coaches huddle on timeouts has always perplexed me and his in game decisions and the double team at the post, have me yelling at the tv.    

Muir has a decision to make, but he'll kick the can down the road.   Having cut 11 sports, I would hope that improving both basketball and football will be even more of a focus now.    He's supposed to be Mr. Basketball from Delaware, so let's see it.

[Treebound]

I too, think Williams should stay for another season to mature mentally, get strong and work on his game.     It was very unfortunate that Da Silva was out for this game and I want to know what happened to Davis in the second half?     As for Haase, Muir will give us all the same "there were too many injuries this year, and that's unfortunate." excuse.   This should have been the make or break year.    I can't speak to the quality of Haase's assistants, but the coaches huddle on timeouts has always perplexed me and his in game decisions and the double team at the post, have me yelling at the tv.    

Muir has a decision to make, but he'll kick the can down the road.   Having cut 11 sports, I would hope that improving both basketball and football will be even more of a focus now.    He's supposed to be Mr. Basketball from Delaware, so let's see it.

[Hurlburt88]

Hasn't Davis missed a few games due to "failure to meet program standards" this year?   May be some low level tension that just will not improve.   I have been kind of worried about that all season.

[Hurlburt88]

Hasn't Davis missed a few games due to "failure to meet program standards" this year?   May be some low level tension that just will not improve.   I have been kind of worried about that all season.

[Bruce Wang]

I've got the perfect candidate for Stanford MBB coach: Ted Lasso.  I doubt Richmond would give him up though.

[Bruce Wang]

I've got the perfect candidate for Stanford MBB coach: Ted Lasso.  I doubt Richmond would give him up though.

[winflop]

Hasn't Davis missed a few games due to "failure to meet program standards" this year?   May be some low level tension that just will not improve.   I have been kind of worried about that all season.

Will only be a concern for another game or two, depending on when they lose their next game

[winflop]

Hasn't Davis missed a few games due to "failure to meet program standards" this year?   May be some low level tension that just will not improve.   I have been kind of worried about that all season.

Will only be a concern for another game or two, depending on when they lose their next game