[teejers1]

The notion that the Giants are vulnerable because they are bad at advancing runners and such is a false narrative. If the Giants don't win the division or get beaten in the playoffs it will be because they don't hit enough home runs and their pitchers aren't dominant enough to overcome the power outage. If the Giants' opponents blast a bunch of home runs then a bunch of singles and sacrifice flies won't be enough to compensate.

Of course that will be the case if you aren't good at scoring without the long ball.  I would like to know what % of Giants runners on 2B with 0 outs score without another hit.  

Same thing for runners on 3B with 1 out (or 0, too).

My gut tells me the Giants are poor at that relative to the rest of the league, or perhaps more directly, relative to past Giants teams.  

The point is you don't have to score runs only by the homer - or even string together 3 hits.  You can go double, grounder to 2B, SF.  But you knew that.

Lastly, I don't understand why homers and advancing runners are mutually exclusive (same with bunting to undefensed side of a shifted infield) - other than if you never try it  you can't do it.  

But whatever, the W/L record speaks for itself, and they've been fun to watch.

[teejers1]

The notion that the Giants are vulnerable because they are bad at advancing runners and such is a false narrative. If the Giants don't win the division or get beaten in the playoffs it will be because they don't hit enough home runs and their pitchers aren't dominant enough to overcome the power outage. If the Giants' opponents blast a bunch of home runs then a bunch of singles and sacrifice flies won't be enough to compensate.

Of course that will be the case if you aren't good at scoring without the long ball.  I would like to know what % of Giants runners on 2B with 0 outs score without another hit.  

Same thing for runners on 3B with 1 out (or 0, too).

My gut tells me the Giants are poor at that relative to the rest of the league, or perhaps more directly, relative to past Giants teams.  

The point is you don't have to score runs only by the homer - or even string together 3 hits.  You can go double, grounder to 2B, SF.  But you knew that.

Lastly, I don't understand why homers and advancing runners are mutually exclusive (same with bunting to undefensed side of a shifted infield) - other than if you never try it  you can't do it.  

But whatever, the W/L record speaks for itself, and they've been fun to watch.

[BobK]

Still another win as McGee gets 5 outs in the 9th. Baseball torture

[BobK]

Still another win as McGee gets 5 outs in the 9th. Baseball torture

[BostonCard]

SF plated one from second today with a double.  But also homered.  Either way, a win is a win.

BC

[BostonCard]

SF plated one from second today with a double.  But also homered.  Either way, a win is a win.

BC

[DC 86]

The notion that the Giants are vulnerable because they are bad at advancing runners and such is a false narrative. If the Giants don't win the division or get beaten in the playoffs it will be because they don't hit enough home runs and their pitchers aren't dominant enough to overcome the power outage. If the Giants' opponents blast a bunch of home runs then a bunch of singles and sacrifice flies won't be enough to compensate.

Of course that will be the case if you aren't good at scoring without the long ball.  I would like to know what % of Giants runners on 2B with 0 outs score without another hit.  

Same thing for runners on 3B with 1 out (or 0, too).

My gut tells me the Giants are poor at that relative to the rest of the league, or perhaps more directly, relative to past Giants teams.  

The point is you don't have to score runs only by the homer - or even string together 3 hits.  You can go double, grounder to 2B, SF.  But you knew that.

Lastly, I don't understand why homers and advancing runners are mutually exclusive (same with bunting to undefensed side of a shifted infield) - other than if you never try it  you can't do it.  

But whatever, the W/L record speaks for itself, and they've been fun to watch.

I don't know the percentage of times that a Giants runner on second base (no outs) has scored without another hit but obviously it's a low number (as it is for every team) but even if a team does score without any more hits it's probably a single run and not multiple runs. It's not a foundation for winning games, it's more of a pleasant surprise. Does sacrificing a runner to third in that situation increase or decrease your run (and win) expectancy? As you said, you can score with a double/ground out/sac fly but repeatedly scoring single runs in that fashion is not a sustainable or effective strategy; crooked number innings is what correlates to winning the most games.

With a runner on third and less than two outs the Giants are batting 317/366/527 for an OPS of .893 which is 9% above league average for that situation.

Homers and advancing runners don't have to be mutually exclusive, but 1) most players aren't proficient at both, especially with power-optimized swings that they don't want to tinker with, 2) only in very specific situations does trying to advance runners increase your run/win expectancy as compared to trying to hit the ball hard (not necessarily a home run), 3) a lot of players today are terrible at bunting and would need a lot of practice just to be adequate at it.

I'm not a Giants fan but I enjoy watching them too, it seems that everything has broken their way and they get contributions from the entire roster instead of being dependent on one or two stars, which is both valuable and cool.

[DC 86]

The notion that the Giants are vulnerable because they are bad at advancing runners and such is a false narrative. If the Giants don't win the division or get beaten in the playoffs it will be because they don't hit enough home runs and their pitchers aren't dominant enough to overcome the power outage. If the Giants' opponents blast a bunch of home runs then a bunch of singles and sacrifice flies won't be enough to compensate.

Of course that will be the case if you aren't good at scoring without the long ball.  I would like to know what % of Giants runners on 2B with 0 outs score without another hit.  

Same thing for runners on 3B with 1 out (or 0, too).

My gut tells me the Giants are poor at that relative to the rest of the league, or perhaps more directly, relative to past Giants teams.  

The point is you don't have to score runs only by the homer - or even string together 3 hits.  You can go double, grounder to 2B, SF.  But you knew that.

Lastly, I don't understand why homers and advancing runners are mutually exclusive (same with bunting to undefensed side of a shifted infield) - other than if you never try it  you can't do it.  

But whatever, the W/L record speaks for itself, and they've been fun to watch.

I don't know the percentage of times that a Giants runner on second base (no outs) has scored without another hit but obviously it's a low number (as it is for every team) but even if a team does score without any more hits it's probably a single run and not multiple runs. It's not a foundation for winning games, it's more of a pleasant surprise. Does sacrificing a runner to third in that situation increase or decrease your run (and win) expectancy? As you said, you can score with a double/ground out/sac fly but repeatedly scoring single runs in that fashion is not a sustainable or effective strategy; crooked number innings is what correlates to winning the most games.

With a runner on third and less than two outs the Giants are batting 317/366/527 for an OPS of .893 which is 9% above league average for that situation.

Homers and advancing runners don't have to be mutually exclusive, but 1) most players aren't proficient at both, especially with power-optimized swings that they don't want to tinker with, 2) only in very specific situations does trying to advance runners increase your run/win expectancy as compared to trying to hit the ball hard (not necessarily a home run), 3) a lot of players today are terrible at bunting and would need a lot of practice just to be adequate at it.

I'm not a Giants fan but I enjoy watching them too, it seems that everything has broken their way and they get contributions from the entire roster instead of being dependent on one or two stars, which is both valuable and cool.

[Phogge]

DC must be a Senators fan... Mickey Vernon, Eddie Yost, Camilo Pascual, Pedro Ramos.

[Phogge]

DC must be a Senators fan... Mickey Vernon, Eddie Yost, Camilo Pascual, Pedro Ramos.

[Mick]

Glad you went to the game.  W e went to Giants Astros a couple Sundays ago.  Spent weekend in SF.  Stayed at Hotel Via across street from Oracle.  Fun weekend. 

We also ate at International Smoke. Ayisha Curry’s collaboration with Michael Mina. We ordered off En Fuego fixed price menu.  Some of the items were very good a couple quite average. What I will say  is if you’re going to order off that menu  be prepared to end up with a boatload of food left over. Unlike most fix priced menus you don’t get to choose one of each course. They just bring everything. And it was way too much food. Felt horrible because I had no refrigerator to put it in so it went to waste and I hate wasting food..

If I went back I’d order off main menu. It was just too much food. The ribs are her specialty and they are good.

We like Michael Mina's restaurants.  Ate at the Bourbon Steakhouse at the Waldorf in Dana Point last Thursday.  Splurged because we never get to see my oldest son.  Excellent meal.  I haven't eaten at International Smoke, but my youngest son (the foodie) has, and he enjoyed it.

---

Those who are expecting the Dodgers to overtake the Giants are forgetting one big advantage for the Giants -- the Dodgers are still using Kenley Jansen as their closer.

Yeah, but Trienen is pretty darn good.

Giants lose; Dodgers win (8 in a row now for LAD).  
Dodgers now 1.5 games out of first place.

BTW, Giants score 1 run.  
5 total hits for the Giants.
Wade, La Stella, Belt, Bryant a combined 0-14.
Lex, you may need to re-think your assumption that hitting will not be an issue for the Giants the rest of the way.  They are now on 3 or 4 games with poor run production.

I'm thinking Dodgers win the west by 4+ games when all is said and done.  
Just hope Giants can win the play-in game. 
Would love to see this team play a real playoff series.

Why?  Every team has stretches where they don’t hit. It’s a long season. But they have enough depth that the hitting will be ok. One issue is scoring without HRs. Last night they were unlucky. Flores hits a rocket with two on that Marte runs down.  Bryant hits a rocket to center with bases loaded. Right at Marte.  Potential 4 runs. 

Pitching another question. What hurt Giants last night were 2 lead off walks.  To a team that lives for walks.  

I’ve always thought Dodgers will win division.  More talented. Better pitching.

I think we'll be okay.  Giants are 17-5 in August (while their bats are down), Dodgers are 16-4, and the Padres have a 1-0 lead in the 7th.  Dodgers have just two hits.

[Mick]

Glad you went to the game.  W e went to Giants Astros a couple Sundays ago.  Spent weekend in SF.  Stayed at Hotel Via across street from Oracle.  Fun weekend. 

We also ate at International Smoke. Ayisha Curry’s collaboration with Michael Mina. We ordered off En Fuego fixed price menu.  Some of the items were very good a couple quite average. What I will say  is if you’re going to order off that menu  be prepared to end up with a boatload of food left over. Unlike most fix priced menus you don’t get to choose one of each course. They just bring everything. And it was way too much food. Felt horrible because I had no refrigerator to put it in so it went to waste and I hate wasting food..

If I went back I’d order off main menu. It was just too much food. The ribs are her specialty and they are good.

We like Michael Mina's restaurants.  Ate at the Bourbon Steakhouse at the Waldorf in Dana Point last Thursday.  Splurged because we never get to see my oldest son.  Excellent meal.  I haven't eaten at International Smoke, but my youngest son (the foodie) has, and he enjoyed it.

---

Those who are expecting the Dodgers to overtake the Giants are forgetting one big advantage for the Giants -- the Dodgers are still using Kenley Jansen as their closer.

Yeah, but Trienen is pretty darn good.

Giants lose; Dodgers win (8 in a row now for LAD).  
Dodgers now 1.5 games out of first place.

BTW, Giants score 1 run.  
5 total hits for the Giants.
Wade, La Stella, Belt, Bryant a combined 0-14.
Lex, you may need to re-think your assumption that hitting will not be an issue for the Giants the rest of the way.  They are now on 3 or 4 games with poor run production.

I'm thinking Dodgers win the west by 4+ games when all is said and done.  
Just hope Giants can win the play-in game. 
Would love to see this team play a real playoff series.

Why?  Every team has stretches where they don’t hit. It’s a long season. But they have enough depth that the hitting will be ok. One issue is scoring without HRs. Last night they were unlucky. Flores hits a rocket with two on that Marte runs down.  Bryant hits a rocket to center with bases loaded. Right at Marte.  Potential 4 runs. 

Pitching another question. What hurt Giants last night were 2 lead off walks.  To a team that lives for walks.  

I’ve always thought Dodgers will win division.  More talented. Better pitching.

I think we'll be okay.  Giants are 17-5 in August (while their bats are down), Dodgers are 16-4, and the Padres have a 1-0 lead in the 7th.  Dodgers have just two hits.

[Giants]

DC must be a Senators fan... Mickey Vernon, Eddie Yost, Camilo Pascual, Pedro Ramos.

Washington

First in war
First in peace
And last in the American League

[Giants]

DC must be a Senators fan... Mickey Vernon, Eddie Yost, Camilo Pascual, Pedro Ramos.

Washington

First in war
First in peace
And last in the American League

[Phogge]

Tried Pig n a Pickle Corte Madera because they advertise on the pregame show. Won’t try again. Spoiled by grills in Memphis where Son #2 works. If you travel there ribs at Central, pulled pork at Corky’s and down home at Elwood’s. Fried chicken at Gus’s. Micheal Mina too expensive. Back in the day in SF the once a year date night places were Ernie’s, Blue Fox, Place Pigalle. Value were 622 Green, Capps Corner, Mike’s on Outer Mission (baccala), Chu Lin.

[Phogge]

Tried Pig n a Pickle Corte Madera because they advertise on the pregame show. Won’t try again. Spoiled by grills in Memphis where Son #2 works. If you travel there ribs at Central, pulled pork at Corky’s and down home at Elwood’s. Fried chicken at Gus’s. Micheal Mina too expensive. Back in the day in SF the once a year date night places were Ernie’s, Blue Fox, Place Pigalle. Value were 622 Green, Capps Corner, Mike’s on Outer Mission (baccala), Chu Lin.

[Phogge]

Watched a bit of Blake Snell vs the Dodgers. Unhittable. So he goes further than ever, 7 2/3. Oh my! goes the Padre staff, pitch count! Padres piss away the game late, very late (16 innings).

60's, Juan vs Spahn. 16 innings, two complete games, each with over 220 pitches. Today's pitchers are pussies and the team brain trust are old ladies.

[Phogge]

Watched a bit of Blake Snell vs the Dodgers. Unhittable. So he goes further than ever, 7 2/3. Oh my! goes the Padre staff, pitch count! Padres piss away the game late, very late (16 innings).

60's, Juan vs Spahn. 16 innings, two complete games, each with over 220 pitches. Today's pitchers are pussies and the team brain trust are old ladies.

[Mick]

Tried Pig n a Pickle Corte Madera because they advertise on the pregame show. Won’t try again. Spoiled by grills in Memphis where Son #2 works. If you travel there ribs at Central, pulled pork at Corky’s and down home at Elwood’s. Fried chicken at Gus’s. Micheal Mina too expensive. Back in the day in SF the once a year date night places were Ernie’s, Blue Fox, Place Pigalle. Value were 622 Green, Capps Corner, Mike’s on Outer Mission (baccala), Chu Lin.

If you find yourself in the South Bay, the third busiest intersection in the state of California is Bascom and Hamilton. 1/4th of a mile north of that intersection on Bascom is Sam's B-B-Q.  Been around forever.  Wife is a BBQ snob, it's the only place she'll go for ribs, pulled pork or brisket.

[Mick]

Tried Pig n a Pickle Corte Madera because they advertise on the pregame show. Won’t try again. Spoiled by grills in Memphis where Son #2 works. If you travel there ribs at Central, pulled pork at Corky’s and down home at Elwood’s. Fried chicken at Gus’s. Micheal Mina too expensive. Back in the day in SF the once a year date night places were Ernie’s, Blue Fox, Place Pigalle. Value were 622 Green, Capps Corner, Mike’s on Outer Mission (baccala), Chu Lin.

If you find yourself in the South Bay, the third busiest intersection in the state of California is Bascom and Hamilton. 1/4th of a mile north of that intersection on Bascom is Sam's B-B-Q.  Been around forever.  Wife is a BBQ snob, it's the only place she'll go for ribs, pulled pork or brisket.

[BobK]

Sam’s is excellent. I miss it no longer living near by.

[BobK]

Sam’s is excellent. I miss it no longer living near by.

[lex24]

Tried Pig n a Pickle Corte Madera because they advertise on the pregame show. Won’t try again. Spoiled by grills in Memphis where Son #2 works. If you travel there ribs at Central, pulled pork at Corky’s and down home at Elwood’s. Fried chicken at Gus’s. Micheal Mina too expensive. Back in the day in SF the once a year date night places were Ernie’s, Blue Fox, Place Pigalle. Value were 622 Green, Capps Corner, Mike’s on Outer Mission (baccala), Chu Lin.

If you find yourself in the South Bay, the third busiest intersection in the state of California is Bascom and Hamilton. 1/4th of a mile north of that intersection on Bascom is Sam's B-B-Q.  Been around forever.  Wife is a BBQ snob, it's the only place she'll go for ribs, pulled pork or brisket.

Best ribs I ever had were at Flints on Shattuck at  Berkeley/Oakland border.  Nothing has come close.  I think they now have work remotely through truck or maybe catering.

[lex24]

Tried Pig n a Pickle Corte Madera because they advertise on the pregame show. Won’t try again. Spoiled by grills in Memphis where Son #2 works. If you travel there ribs at Central, pulled pork at Corky’s and down home at Elwood’s. Fried chicken at Gus’s. Micheal Mina too expensive. Back in the day in SF the once a year date night places were Ernie’s, Blue Fox, Place Pigalle. Value were 622 Green, Capps Corner, Mike’s on Outer Mission (baccala), Chu Lin.

If you find yourself in the South Bay, the third busiest intersection in the state of California is Bascom and Hamilton. 1/4th of a mile north of that intersection on Bascom is Sam's B-B-Q.  Been around forever.  Wife is a BBQ snob, it's the only place she'll go for ribs, pulled pork or brisket.

Best ribs I ever had were at Flints on Shattuck at  Berkeley/Oakland border.  Nothing has come close.  I think they now have work remotely through truck or maybe catering.

[Phogge]

I guess Sam's won't deliver to West Marin.

There was a place on Divis just off Fell Street. Do City BBQ. Fantastic. Think it's long gone.

Funny story. On location in Tampa we were told not to miss LeRoy Selmon's place. We asked the hotel lot valet for directions to Selmon's. He vectored us into a neighborhood pretty far out. The joint was "rustic." Run by brother Dewey Selmon. We gave it a shot and yahoo! The next night we found LeRoy's, modern, plush and clean. Dewey's food was much better.

[Phogge]

I guess Sam's won't deliver to West Marin.

There was a place on Divis just off Fell Street. Do City BBQ. Fantastic. Think it's long gone.

Funny story. On location in Tampa we were told not to miss LeRoy Selmon's place. We asked the hotel lot valet for directions to Selmon's. He vectored us into a neighborhood pretty far out. The joint was "rustic." Run by brother Dewey Selmon. We gave it a shot and yahoo! The next night we found LeRoy's, modern, plush and clean. Dewey's food was much better.

[DC 86]

60's, Juan vs Spahn. 16 innings, two complete games, each with over 220 pitches. Today's pitchers are pussies and the team brain trust are old ladies.

Or front offices today have learned what "Survivor Bias" is.

[DC 86]

60's, Juan vs Spahn. 16 innings, two complete games, each with over 220 pitches. Today's pitchers are pussies and the team brain trust are old ladies.

Or front offices today have learned what "Survivor Bias" is.

[BobK]

I was recently at Billy Sims BBQ in Norman. Outstanding.

[BobK]

I was recently at Billy Sims BBQ in Norman. Outstanding.

[Phogge]

Norman. Football, BBQ and the Shaklee plant. Is Shaklee still in business?

[Phogge]

Norman. Football, BBQ and the Shaklee plant. Is Shaklee still in business?

[Leftcoast]

Watched a bit of Blake Snell vs the Dodgers. Unhittable. So he goes further than ever, 7 2/3. Oh my! goes the Padre staff, pitch count! Padres piss away the game late, very late (16 innings).

You must have LOVED the Giants game last night when Mets manager Luis Rojas pulled starting pitcher Taijuan Walker after two weak bloop hits.  Next batter doubled to win the game for the Giants.

Rojas is justifiably getting slammed by the NY press.

[Leftcoast]

Watched a bit of Blake Snell vs the Dodgers. Unhittable. So he goes further than ever, 7 2/3. Oh my! goes the Padre staff, pitch count! Padres piss away the game late, very late (16 innings).

You must have LOVED the Giants game last night when Mets manager Luis Rojas pulled starting pitcher Taijuan Walker after two weak bloop hits.  Next batter doubled to win the game for the Giants.

Rojas is justifiably getting slammed by the NY press.

[BostonCard]

60's, Juan vs Spahn. 16 innings, two complete games, each with over 220 pitches. Today's pitchers are pussies and the team brain trust are old ladies.

Or front offices today have learned what "Survivor Bias" is.

Obligatory survivor bias figure.



BC

---

If you find yourself in the South Bay, the third busiest intersection in the state of California is Bascom and Hamilton. 1/4th of a mile north of that intersection on Bascom is Sam's B-B-Q.  Been around forever.  Wife is a BBQ snob, it's the only place she'll go for ribs, pulled pork or brisket.

Based on recent Yelp reviews, it seems to have gone downhill.

BC

[BostonCard]

60's, Juan vs Spahn. 16 innings, two complete games, each with over 220 pitches. Today's pitchers are pussies and the team brain trust are old ladies.

Or front offices today have learned what "Survivor Bias" is.

Obligatory survivor bias figure.



BC

---

If you find yourself in the South Bay, the third busiest intersection in the state of California is Bascom and Hamilton. 1/4th of a mile north of that intersection on Bascom is Sam's B-B-Q.  Been around forever.  Wife is a BBQ snob, it's the only place she'll go for ribs, pulled pork or brisket.

Based on recent Yelp reviews, it seems to have gone downhill.

BC

[Leftcoast]

Clearly we should armor the wings and tail and not waste effort on inconsequential things like the pilot and engines!

[Leftcoast]

Clearly we should armor the wings and tail and not waste effort on inconsequential things like the pilot and engines!

[Giants]

Watched a bit of Blake Snell vs the Dodgers. Unhittable. So he goes further than ever, 7 2/3. Oh my! goes the Padre staff, pitch count! Padres piss away the game late, very late (16 innings).

You must have LOVED the Giants game last night when Mets manager Luis Rojas pulled starting pitcher Taijuan Walker after two weak bloop hits.  Next batter doubled to win the game for the Giants.

Rojas is justifiably getting slammed by the NY press.

2014 NLDS Game 4 Matt Williams 
2020 World Series Game 6 Kevin Cash

The two best recent examples of managers making an obvious mistake (no hindsight required, it was so evident at the moment) by pulling the starting pitcher.

[Giants]

Watched a bit of Blake Snell vs the Dodgers. Unhittable. So he goes further than ever, 7 2/3. Oh my! goes the Padre staff, pitch count! Padres piss away the game late, very late (16 innings).

You must have LOVED the Giants game last night when Mets manager Luis Rojas pulled starting pitcher Taijuan Walker after two weak bloop hits.  Next batter doubled to win the game for the Giants.

Rojas is justifiably getting slammed by the NY press.

2014 NLDS Game 4 Matt Williams 
2020 World Series Game 6 Kevin Cash

The two best recent examples of managers making an obvious mistake (no hindsight required, it was so evident at the moment) by pulling the starting pitcher.