12-14-2022, 10:47 AM
Correa or Crawford to 3B or that’s what I read this morning
Outside Topic OT: Giants 2023 thread
Hey Phogge…
With all the hoopla surrounding Correa’s decision, you might have missed the following:
“Giants sign Donovan Walton to a minor league contract”.
Crack open a bottle of your favorite beverage, sit back and dream of this double play combo for the ages - Correa and Walton!
Given Zaidi’s love of platooning, I think we will see Crawford sharing playing time at both 2B and 3B with Villar, Flores and Estrada.
With all the hoopla surrounding Correa’s decision, you might have missed the following:
“Giants sign Donovan Walton to a minor league contract”.
Crack open a bottle of your favorite beverage, sit back and dream of this double play combo for the ages - Correa and Walton!
(12-14-2022, 12:26 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-14-2022, 10:47 AM)BobK Wrote: Correa or Crawford to 3B or that’s what I read this morning
How about 2B for Crawford?
Given Zaidi’s love of platooning, I think we will see Crawford sharing playing time at both 2B and 3B with Villar, Flores and Estrada.
Hey Phogge…
With all the hoopla surrounding Correa’s decision, you might have missed the following:
“Giants sign Donovan Walton to a minor league contract”.
Crack open a bottle of your favorite beverage, sit back and dream of this double play combo for the ages - Correa and Walton!
Given Zaidi’s love of platooning, I think we will see Crawford sharing playing time at both 2B and 3B with Villar, Flores and Estrada.
With all the hoopla surrounding Correa’s decision, you might have missed the following:
“Giants sign Donovan Walton to a minor league contract”.
Crack open a bottle of your favorite beverage, sit back and dream of this double play combo for the ages - Correa and Walton!
(12-14-2022, 12:26 PM)Mick Wrote:(12-14-2022, 10:47 AM)BobK Wrote: Correa or Crawford to 3B or that’s what I read this morning
How about 2B for Crawford?
Given Zaidi’s love of platooning, I think we will see Crawford sharing playing time at both 2B and 3B with Villar, Flores and Estrada.
12-14-2022, 07:36 PM
Wasn't he part of a TV show with Will Gear and Richard Thomas?
Is he Bill Walton's bastard son?
I read somewhere that his parents were big fans of that fraud who sung about bananas.
One of Farhan's guys. No field, no hit.
Is he Bill Walton's bastard son?
I read somewhere that his parents were big fans of that fraud who sung about bananas.
One of Farhan's guys. No field, no hit.
12-15-2022, 08:00 AM
All the MLB coverage I saw on the Correa signing had Crawford moving to 3B, with some commentary saying he is willing to move willingly.
Will be watching how Casey Schmitt fits into things if he continues where he left off last year. He is a 3B.
Also, what about Marco Luciano? Does he get moved to 3B or OF? Because if Schmitt is 3B of future, and Correa is SS, where does he play?
Will be watching how Casey Schmitt fits into things if he continues where he left off last year. He is a 3B.
Also, what about Marco Luciano? Does he get moved to 3B or OF? Because if Schmitt is 3B of future, and Correa is SS, where does he play?
All the MLB coverage I saw on the Correa signing had Crawford moving to 3B, with some commentary saying he is willing to move willingly.
Will be watching how Casey Schmitt fits into things if he continues where he left off last year. He is a 3B.
Also, what about Marco Luciano? Does he get moved to 3B or OF? Because if Schmitt is 3B of future, and Correa is SS, where does he play?
Will be watching how Casey Schmitt fits into things if he continues where he left off last year. He is a 3B.
Also, what about Marco Luciano? Does he get moved to 3B or OF? Because if Schmitt is 3B of future, and Correa is SS, where does he play?
12-15-2022, 11:14 AM
(12-15-2022, 08:00 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: All the MLB coverage I saw on the Correa signing had Crawford moving to 3B, with some commentary saying he is willing to move willingly.
Will be watching how Casey Schmitt fits into things if he continues where he left off last year. He is a 3B.
Also, what about Marco Luciano? Does he get moved to 3B or OF? Because if Schmitt is 3B of future, and Correa is SS, where does he play?
I hope that Luciano gets traded to the Pirates for Brian Reynolds, our soon-to-be new center fielder...
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(12-15-2022, 08:00 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: All the MLB coverage I saw on the Correa signing had Crawford moving to 3B, with some commentary saying he is willing to move willingly.
Will be watching how Casey Schmitt fits into things if he continues where he left off last year. He is a 3B.
Also, what about Marco Luciano? Does he get moved to 3B or OF? Because if Schmitt is 3B of future, and Correa is SS, where does he play?
I hope that Luciano gets traded to the Pirates for Brian Reynolds, our soon-to-be new center fielder...
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-16-2022, 07:15 AM
(12-16-2022, 12:37 AM)Giants Wrote:(12-15-2022, 06:10 PM)BobK Wrote: Rodon signs with the Yankees. 6 years $162M
His AAV is greater than Correa…
27.0 v. 26.92
Correa is a much, much better deal than Rodon. Rodon's had two All-Star years in a row (his Chisox year being a bit better than his Giants year, but he led the league in Fielding Independent Pitching last year at 2.25). His WHIP's been tremendous, 1.028 last year, 0.978 the year before. His six years prior to that were ordinary with a fair amount of injuries -- he had 92 starts in those six years. Stripling's career WHIP is less than 1.200 and he went 10-4 last year. I'm amazed he didn't get more interest.
This is shaping up to be a really strong team, that will do well with the new shift limits. The shift limits are actually stronger than I thought they would be. Each team has to have two fielders on either side of second base -- that's the easy part. They also have to be on the infield dirt, not the outfield rim. Also, the fielders can't switch sides for different batters; e.g., Correa can't switch with the 2nd baseman if a strong lefty hitter is up. It does not prevent a team from positioning an outfielder in the infield or in shallow outfield grass. I think Giants hitters and fielders will be better off with these rules.
Two other new rules:
1) Bases will be 18 inches square instead of 15 inches square, in order to reduce injuries.
2) Pitch timer will include 30 seconds between batters, 15 seconds between pitches with no one on base, 20 seconds between pitches with men on base. These rules have been in various minor leagues, and the effect has been games that are 26 minutes shorter on average, with steal attempts increasing from 2.23 per game with a 68% success rate to 2.83 attempts with a 77% success rate. BTW, the Giants' shiny new catcher who hit so well in AAA can't throw a lick. His caught stealing rate is about 10%.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(12-16-2022, 12:37 AM)Giants Wrote:(12-15-2022, 06:10 PM)BobK Wrote: Rodon signs with the Yankees. 6 years $162M
His AAV is greater than Correa…
27.0 v. 26.92
Correa is a much, much better deal than Rodon. Rodon's had two All-Star years in a row (his Chisox year being a bit better than his Giants year, but he led the league in Fielding Independent Pitching last year at 2.25). His WHIP's been tremendous, 1.028 last year, 0.978 the year before. His six years prior to that were ordinary with a fair amount of injuries -- he had 92 starts in those six years. Stripling's career WHIP is less than 1.200 and he went 10-4 last year. I'm amazed he didn't get more interest.
This is shaping up to be a really strong team, that will do well with the new shift limits. The shift limits are actually stronger than I thought they would be. Each team has to have two fielders on either side of second base -- that's the easy part. They also have to be on the infield dirt, not the outfield rim. Also, the fielders can't switch sides for different batters; e.g., Correa can't switch with the 2nd baseman if a strong lefty hitter is up. It does not prevent a team from positioning an outfielder in the infield or in shallow outfield grass. I think Giants hitters and fielders will be better off with these rules.
Two other new rules:
1) Bases will be 18 inches square instead of 15 inches square, in order to reduce injuries.
2) Pitch timer will include 30 seconds between batters, 15 seconds between pitches with no one on base, 20 seconds between pitches with men on base. These rules have been in various minor leagues, and the effect has been games that are 26 minutes shorter on average, with steal attempts increasing from 2.23 per game with a 68% success rate to 2.83 attempts with a 77% success rate. BTW, the Giants' shiny new catcher who hit so well in AAA can't throw a lick. His caught stealing rate is about 10%.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
12-16-2022, 08:11 AM
Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
12-16-2022, 08:21 AM
(12-16-2022, 08:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
So true on the 100%. Back when pitchers actually thought about CGs they would pace a bit. And they actually could get hitters out early in counts. It wasn’t all about. “ missing bats”. More about pitching to contact. Which today is baseball’s equivalent of a Game Manager….
(12-16-2022, 08:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
So true on the 100%. Back when pitchers actually thought about CGs they would pace a bit. And they actually could get hitters out early in counts. It wasn’t all about. “ missing bats”. More about pitching to contact. Which today is baseball’s equivalent of a Game Manager….
12-16-2022, 01:35 PM
(12-16-2022, 08:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
Agree…
I like the Correa contract because the reduced AAV allows SF to pursue other talent without having to worry about the CBT. In reality, it is a 10 year/35MM per year deal with three extra years tacked on for accounting purposes. There is little likelihood that Correa will complete the entirety of the deal.
There was an interesting article on The Athletic that addressed this issue, suggesting the teams are looking at these long contracts as simply a way around the tax. Of course, MLB has the right to void the signings and probably would if a contract took a player into their age 45 season. Needless to say, that would cause the players union to take action.
In other words, I think we will see a lot more of these types of contracts in the future until someone tries to stretch the rubber band too far and it snaps. I like the idea that Zaidi is in the van on this concept.
As for Rodon, it is a major risk, given the points you raised. I would not have given him a contract of that length. I am glad Zaidi did not attempt to match the offer.
My general rule of thumb….
Position player - long term deal, yes
Pitcher - long term deal, no
(12-16-2022, 08:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
Agree…
I like the Correa contract because the reduced AAV allows SF to pursue other talent without having to worry about the CBT. In reality, it is a 10 year/35MM per year deal with three extra years tacked on for accounting purposes. There is little likelihood that Correa will complete the entirety of the deal.
There was an interesting article on The Athletic that addressed this issue, suggesting the teams are looking at these long contracts as simply a way around the tax. Of course, MLB has the right to void the signings and probably would if a contract took a player into their age 45 season. Needless to say, that would cause the players union to take action.
In other words, I think we will see a lot more of these types of contracts in the future until someone tries to stretch the rubber band too far and it snaps. I like the idea that Zaidi is in the van on this concept.
As for Rodon, it is a major risk, given the points you raised. I would not have given him a contract of that length. I am glad Zaidi did not attempt to match the offer.
My general rule of thumb….
Position player - long term deal, yes
Pitcher - long term deal, no
(12-16-2022, 01:35 PM)Giants Wrote:(12-16-2022, 08:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
Agree…
I like the Correa contract because the reduced AAV allows SF to pursue other talent without having to worry about the CBT. In reality, it is a 10 year/35MM per year deal with three extra years tacked on for accounting purposes. There is little likelihood that Correa will complete the entirety of the deal.
There was an interesting article on The Athletic that addressed this issue, suggesting the teams are looking at these long contracts as simply a way around the tax. Of course, MLB has the right to void the signings and probably would if a contract took a player into their age 45 season. Needless to say, that would cause the players union to take action.
In other words, I think we will see a lot more of these types of contracts in the future until someone tries to stretch the rubber band too far and it snaps. I like the idea that Zaidi is in the van on this concept.
As for Rodon, it is a major risk, given the points you raised. I would not have given him a contract of that length. I am glad Zaidi did not attempt to match the offer.
My general rule of thumb….
Position player - long term deal, yes
Pitcher - long term deal, no
Giants supposedly were thinking of going 15 years, but thought Commish might nix it. As for Rodon, agree with you. But also see why it makes sense from Yankees perspective. They are poised to win now. Rodon can gets them over the top. If that happens and then he burns out after three or four years so be it. He’s already been worth it.
(12-16-2022, 01:35 PM)Giants Wrote:(12-16-2022, 08:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Giants... there was some talk a few years ago at two stops on our production trail for our 60 Minutes story about elbow injuries. The emphasis on a full out 100% effort on fastballs could be one reason for the rash of surgeries. When I watched Rodon, as a former college and high semipro pitcher, it looked like he was on max effort.
With this in mind and with his age I think he has a chance to flame out. The Yankees probably have this in mind and with their resources are banking on perhaps three years of prime Rodon. A good contract for them, a bad contract for a team like the Giants.
At least one of Webb, Cobb, Wood, Scallopini, Junis, Manaea and Stripling and probably more aren’t going to have a full season. I like depth and so far they have kept Harrison and Rodriquez, two of their most important youngsters. Ergo, avoid bullpen games.
Agree…
I like the Correa contract because the reduced AAV allows SF to pursue other talent without having to worry about the CBT. In reality, it is a 10 year/35MM per year deal with three extra years tacked on for accounting purposes. There is little likelihood that Correa will complete the entirety of the deal.
There was an interesting article on The Athletic that addressed this issue, suggesting the teams are looking at these long contracts as simply a way around the tax. Of course, MLB has the right to void the signings and probably would if a contract took a player into their age 45 season. Needless to say, that would cause the players union to take action.
In other words, I think we will see a lot more of these types of contracts in the future until someone tries to stretch the rubber band too far and it snaps. I like the idea that Zaidi is in the van on this concept.
As for Rodon, it is a major risk, given the points you raised. I would not have given him a contract of that length. I am glad Zaidi did not attempt to match the offer.
My general rule of thumb….
Position player - long term deal, yes
Pitcher - long term deal, no
Giants supposedly were thinking of going 15 years, but thought Commish might nix it. As for Rodon, agree with you. But also see why it makes sense from Yankees perspective. They are poised to win now. Rodon can gets them over the top. If that happens and then he burns out after three or four years so be it. He’s already been worth it.
12-17-2022, 12:32 AM
Whatever happens it’s not anything like next year and the Otahni Sweepstakes. How about a billion dollars for 10 years?
12-17-2022, 01:25 AM
Ohtani - bidding starts at $450 million over 15 years. The Dodgers are the morning line favorite.
12-17-2022, 06:59 PM
Glad the Giants kept some of their powder dry. Would love to see Ohtani here.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
Glad the Giants kept some of their powder dry. Would love to see Ohtani here.
Free Phogge!!!! And no, crimson doesn't refer to the Tide.
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