Haase fired - Printable Version
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RE: Haase fired - burger - 03-22-2024
(03-22-2024, 09:10 AM)bbm233 Wrote:(03-22-2024, 08:16 AM)burger Wrote: Here's Smith's full D-I head coaching resume: https://barttorvik.com/coach-history.php?coach=Kyle%20Smith Color me not very impressed.
We hired Haase basically based on a single good season, and I think we'd be doing the same with Smith.
And it's not just one good season from Smith--it's more like one good player. It's safe to say that if Isaac Jones hadn't transferred to WSU, WSU isn't in the Tourney, and Smith isn't a candidate for the MBB job, right? Maybe we shouldn't be hiring people who were one transfer player away from not being a candidate?
On the other hand, Smith might be the best we can get. Bleh.
I want a coach who can actually coach. Do you think the talent on WSU's roster this year is better than Stanford's talent this year? I don't. Yet WSU is in into the round of 32. I don't care if the next coach is Smith - just get somebody who knows what to do with the players available.
Yes, I think the talent on WSU's roster was better than Stanford's. I saw at least 2 of the WSU games, and they had the best players on the court each time. Jones, Wells, and Rice would all have started at Stanford and Jones or Rice would probably have been our best player. Those two guys were both all-Pac-12.
RE: Haase fired - gailtate - 03-22-2024
Seems like Stanford's prospects in hoops at this time range between dim and dimmer. I would feel better, of course, if a stalwart A.D. patrolled the halls of Arrillaga these days. Still, might the next throw of the dice result in a return to relevance? I wouldn't bet on it.
RE: Haase fired - jacket3ree - 03-22-2024
I agree that Muir inspires little confidence. That said, Bowlsby was rather stalwart and he dumped Johnson for Dawkins to jump start the slide into oblivion. Good ADs make all kinds of bad decisions.
Never figured Dawkins out. Thought he would be better than pretty good. Seems to be on thin ice in Florida. And that ain't easy. <rim shot>
RE: Haase fired - bbm233 - 03-22-2024
(03-22-2024, 09:18 AM)burger Wrote:(03-22-2024, 09:10 AM)bbm233 Wrote:(03-22-2024, 08:16 AM)burger Wrote: Here's Smith's full D-I head coaching resume: https://barttorvik.com/coach-history.php?coach=Kyle%20Smith Color me not very impressed.
We hired Haase basically based on a single good season, and I think we'd be doing the same with Smith.
And it's not just one good season from Smith--it's more like one good player. It's safe to say that if Isaac Jones hadn't transferred to WSU, WSU isn't in the Tourney, and Smith isn't a candidate for the MBB job, right? Maybe we shouldn't be hiring people who were one transfer player away from not being a candidate?
On the other hand, Smith might be the best we can get. Bleh.
I want a coach who can actually coach. Do you think the talent on WSU's roster this year is better than Stanford's talent this year? I don't. Yet WSU is in into the round of 32. I don't care if the next coach is Smith - just get somebody who knows what to do with the players available.
Yes, I think the talent on WSU's roster was better than Stanford's. I saw at least 2 of the WSU games, and they had the best players on the court each time. Jones, Wells, and Rice would all have started at Stanford and Jones or Rice would probably have been our best player. Those two guys were both all-Pac-12.
Rice = Carlyle with good coaching
Jones > Angel (but Angel with better coaching?)
Cluff < Reynaud (not even close)
Jako = M Jones
Wells = S Jones
Watts/Houinsou < Andre with good coaching
Switch the coaches and I think Stanford's results would be comparable to WSU's.
RE: Haase fired - norcard10 - 03-22-2024
(03-22-2024, 01:34 PM)bbm233 Wrote:(03-22-2024, 09:18 AM)burger Wrote:(03-22-2024, 09:10 AM)bbm233 Wrote:(03-22-2024, 08:16 AM)burger Wrote: Here's Smith's full D-I head coaching resume: https://barttorvik.com/coach-history.php?coach=Kyle%20Smith Color me not very impressed.
We hired Haase basically based on a single good season, and I think we'd be doing the same with Smith.
And it's not just one good season from Smith--it's more like one good player. It's safe to say that if Isaac Jones hadn't transferred to WSU, WSU isn't in the Tourney, and Smith isn't a candidate for the MBB job, right? Maybe we shouldn't be hiring people who were one transfer player away from not being a candidate?
On the other hand, Smith might be the best we can get. Bleh.
I want a coach who can actually coach. Do you think the talent on WSU's roster this year is better than Stanford's talent this year? I don't. Yet WSU is in into the round of 32. I don't care if the next coach is Smith - just get somebody who knows what to do with the players available.
Yes, I think the talent on WSU's roster was better than Stanford's. I saw at least 2 of the WSU games, and they had the best players on the court each time. Jones, Wells, and Rice would all have started at Stanford and Jones or Rice would probably have been our best player. Those two guys were both all-Pac-12.
Rice = Carlyle with good coaching
Jones > Angel (but Angel with better coaching?)
Cluff < Reynaud (not even close)
Jako = M Jones
Wells = S Jones
Watts/Houinsou < Andre with good coaching
Switch the coaches and I think Stanford's results would be comparable to WSU's.
One good season in a down year for the league leads much to be desired.
RE: Haase fired - chrisk - 03-22-2024
(03-22-2024, 02:56 PM)norcard10 Wrote:Colorado upset #7 seed Florida.(03-22-2024, 01:34 PM)bbm233 Wrote:(03-22-2024, 09:18 AM)burger Wrote:(03-22-2024, 09:10 AM)bbm233 Wrote:(03-22-2024, 08:16 AM)burger Wrote: Here's Smith's full D-I head coaching resume: https://barttorvik.com/coach-history.php?coach=Kyle%20Smith Color me not very impressed.
We hired Haase basically based on a single good season, and I think we'd be doing the same with Smith.
And it's not just one good season from Smith--it's more like one good player. It's safe to say that if Isaac Jones hadn't transferred to WSU, WSU isn't in the Tourney, and Smith isn't a candidate for the MBB job, right? Maybe we shouldn't be hiring people who were one transfer player away from not being a candidate?
On the other hand, Smith might be the best we can get. Bleh.
I want a coach who can actually coach. Do you think the talent on WSU's roster this year is better than Stanford's talent this year? I don't. Yet WSU is in into the round of 32. I don't care if the next coach is Smith - just get somebody who knows what to do with the players available.
Yes, I think the talent on WSU's roster was better than Stanford's. I saw at least 2 of the WSU games, and they had the best players on the court each time. Jones, Wells, and Rice would all have started at Stanford and Jones or Rice would probably have been our best player. Those two guys were both all-Pac-12.
Rice = Carlyle with good coaching
Jones > Angel (but Angel with better coaching?)
Cluff < Reynaud (not even close)
Jako = M Jones
Wells = S Jones
Watts/Houinsou < Andre with good coaching
Switch the coaches and I think Stanford's results would be comparable to WSU's.
One good season in a down year for the league leads much to be desired.
RE: Haase fired - SamuelMcF - 03-22-2024
The Pac-12 is 5-0 so far in MM, in fact.
RE: Haase fired - StanUSwagU - 03-23-2024
My thinking on the Approach/Philosophy for hiring a Mens Bball (& Football) Coach is the following:
(1). When the 'Musical Chairs of conference realignment happened' we were nearly left out in the cold without a seat in a 'Major Power Conference' largely because 'Our Football & Mens Basketball' .. at the time & for a while, not being Top20 programs .....were not seen as a 'value-add' for the Major-Conferences.
(2). Then, because not being invited into a Major Power Conference, (due to our Mens-BBall & Football not being Top20 programs) would ....
a. Hurt our other sports (including the Olympic Sports)
b. Hurt our ability to Recruit great Student-Athletes
c. Hurt Stanford's Ability to get large shares of money/revenue (that get doled out when your university is in a Major Power Conference)
d. Hurt Stanfords Ability to get partnerships with Major 'Sports Oriented' TV/Media Networks, Platforms & Corporations, etc
e. Ultimately deprive Stanford University of 1 source of Revenue worth 10-40 million dollars a year
...this 'Problem/Risk of not being seen & coveted as a Top20 Football & Top20 Mens Bball program ....is a REAL EXISTENTIAL THREAT to the whole Stanford Sports program & The University as a whole:
...If Stanford had not been able to join the ACC, they would have been relegated to a (a) A minor conference like the WCC or MountainWest or (b) been forced to go Independent ....and in either of these cases, Stanford University would lose out on:
-- 10s of Millions of Dollars/ per year of the Revenue/Payouts that 1 gets from being in a 'Major Power Athletic Conference'
-- Great Student-Athletes who want to 'Be Visible' & compete in 'Major Power Conferences'
(These results/effects of Losing 10-30 Million Dollars a Year in Revenue from association with a 'Major Power Sports Conference' COULD (due to not being coveted by those Major Power Sports Conferences, & due to us not having a Top20 Football & Mens Bball program) ... BE AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT to Stanford University as a Whole, in that you wouldn't have that 'Extra Source of 10-30 million dollars of Revenue a Year & then You might not be able to Build 'New State of the Art Facilities for Sports, EngineeringLabs, Science&Tech Labs, etc).
The Risk of not being Top20 in Football & MensBasketball (in this new Binary There will be 25 BigTime SportsUniversities, and the other universities will slowly wither away into NIL/TransferPortal irrelevance) could turn Stanford into the Irrelevance of a Cornell or Dartmouth or Oberlin College (sorry in any of our board members are alums of those colleges) & Prevent Stanford University from being at a Table with 10-30 million dollars a Year of Revenue.
(3) So, having said all that, I think the Approach/Philosophy for Hiring a Mens Bball (& Football) Coach should be the following:
1. GO BIG, VERY VERY BIG !! [No more of this 'Little engine that could or might Mentality ! ... Lets Aspire & Make it a REQUIREMENT that We Annuallly Field Top25 Football & Mens Basketball Teams ]
2. Take being Top20 in MensBBall & Football as an 'EXISTENTIAL NECESSITY for Stanford University' in this New College Sports Landscape of Conference Realignment, NIL, TransferPortal, & the loss of opportunities for 10-30 MillionDollars a Year at Stake
3. No Nore of this 'Little engine that Could or Might' Mentality to Mens Bball & Football
4. Do the Following = GO BIG & Pick Head Coaches that ARE GUARANTEED To Recruit & Run Top 20 Football & Mens Bball programs in PowerConferences , ....because that's is what those Coaches have done for a LongTime (have a track record of doing for many years) !
(A) Only Go for BigTime COACHES who are ALREADY PROVEN WINNERS (i.e have Run Top20 programs) in Power Conferences !
(B) Put forth a brobdingnagian CONTRACT (e.g 8 years $125 Million Dollars guaranteed) to Lure this Coach away from his current Top20 Power Conference Job!
C) Because becoming Top20 in Football & Mens BBall is now an Existential Threat for Stanford University as a whole (so we dont become irrelevant like Cornall or Dartmouth or Oberlin), Modify the Freshman Admissions & Transfers Admissions criteria ...to be whatever they are at Cal, Duke, NotreDame, UCLA (which is still a very high standard, but more realistic if you want to compete to Recruit & Admit great 4 and 5 star Football & Mens Bball Athletes)
(D) Then with the Admissions/Transfers requirements modified, ....For the Mens Basketball Hire, KEEP IT SIMPLE & Offer an 8year $125 Million dollar contract to 1 of these following Coaches (who will be Guaranteed in a few years to have Stanford be Top25 in Basketball) =
(i) Bill Self (Kansas)
(ii) Jay Wright (ex Villanova)
(iii) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
(iv) Dana Altman (Oregon)
(v) Buzz Williams (Texas A & M)
(vi) Michael Malone (Current Denver Nuggets Coach)
(vii) Brad Stevens (ex Butler coach)
and this last Wild-card for a Mens BBall Head Coach Hire =
(viii) Gino Auriemma
[Basketball is Basketball and Gino doesn't play around, if he would take the StanU job, best believe he is coming here to be Top25 ..and yes some would now say why not TaraV, but no, lets leave that topic alone]
END
-StanUSwagU
RE: Haase fired - Spiny_Norman - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 09:46 AM)StanUSwagU Wrote: My thinking on the Approach/Philosophy for hiring a Mens Bball (& Football) Coach is the following:
(1). When the 'Musical Chairs of conference realignment happened' we were nearly left out in the cold without a seat in a 'Major Power Conference' largely because 'Our Football & Mens Basketball' .. at the time & for a while, not being Top20 programs .....were not seen as a 'value-add' for the Major-Conferences.
One correction - Stanford was not seen as a value-add by Fox which controls the Big 10 TV money. USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington are going to the Big 10 because Fox agreed to increase its payment to the conference for them. We presume that the Big 10 school presidents would have been glad to add Stanford to increase the academic prestige of the conference.
And I don't necessarily think that football and basketball success is an existential threat to the University. Stanford has made a substantial commitment to subsidize Athletics for the foreseeable future regardless of the results on the field or the court. I agree with someone else (Jacket3ree?) that Stanford is playing the wait-and-see game. They are going to subsidize ACC participation for the next few years as they wait to see if college athletics reaches a point of acceptable stability. Until then, I expect Stanford to support men's basketball relatively cheaply (and maybe after as well - men's hoops does not seem to be a priority at Arrillaga).
But I do appreciate the ambitious suggestions! When I was a junior, Stanford fired hoops coach Dick Dibiaso. A few of us tried to generate energy for a campaign to hire Al McGuire who had retired after winning a national championship a few years before. The AD Andy Geiger did make an ambitious hire, getting Tom Davis from Boston College. But Davis left after 4 years of chafing under Admissions restrictions.
RE: Haase fired - terry - 03-23-2024
WSU was just eliminated. So if Kyle Smith is going to be our guy, we should know soon.
RE: Haase fired - BostonCard - 03-23-2024
LOL, StanUSwagU.
The $10 to $30 million that you cite are a rounding error to the University.
Here are Stanford's consolidated financials:
Q4 FY23 Annual Financial Report_no MD&A (stanford.edu)
Athletics is so irrelevant to the University's financial health that it doesn't even merit its own line item in the consolidated financials; it's lumped in with housing and dining services, the Stanford Alumni Association, and other activities under the non-descript term "Auxiliary activities". $30 million is nothing to sneeze at, but it will not threaten the financial health of the University.
Quote:Total consolidated operating revenues increased by $1.2 billion or 8% in fiscal year 2023 to $16.3 billion.
$30 million is 0.2% of the consolidated total revenue. "The university, Stanford Health Care (SHC) and Lucile Salter Packard Children's Hospital at Stanford (LPCH1), generated a consolidated operating surplus in fiscal year 2023 with operating revenues exceeding expenses by $290 million."
Since Stanford is supposed to be a non-profit, it can easily absorb the loss of $10 to $30 million, if it wanted to. It could also retrench from athletics, reduce expenses and get off the ever-worsening cycle of sacrificing its academics for sportsball, which seems to not just have little to do with its mission, but based on your post, would actually run cross-currents to its mission. D1 Intercollegiate Athletics could disappear from the University and the earth would still turn.
BC
RE: Haase fired - Spiny_Norman - 03-23-2024
Dusty May is off the board. Hired by Michigan.
RE: Haase fired - chrisk - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 07:35 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote: Dusty May is off the board. Hired by Michigan.
Do you think May was on Muir’s top 10 list?
RE: Haase fired - Nobadeer - 03-23-2024
Meanwhile, Ingram and C Ryan and MOC all headed to the Sweet 16.
Ingram 17 pts 7 rebs, Cormac 14 pts, 3 rebs for UNC; MOC played a game high 42 minutes, with 12 pts, 8 ast for OT winning NC St. Wolfpack.
RE: Haase fired - norcard10 - 03-23-2024
(03-23-2024, 05:19 PM)terry Wrote: WSU was just eliminated. So if Kyle Smith is going to be our guy, we should know soon.
Or we could wait till the tournament is over to have more options hopefully.
RE: Haase fired - MV72018 - 03-24-2024
(03-23-2024, 10:14 PM)norcard10 Wrote:(03-23-2024, 05:19 PM)terry Wrote: WSU was just eliminated. So if Kyle Smith is going to be our guy, we should know soon.
Or we could wait till the tournament is over to have more options hopefully.
I doubt that many promising coaches will be lining up for interviews with Muir for the Stanford job after the NCAA Tournament. At this point, the incoming coach for the Stanford men's basketball team will be faced with a more Herculean task than Troy Taylor faced as incoming football coach after a major swath of the team went into the portal, retired, or graduated. Stanford men's basketball is arguably at its nadir since 1986.
RE: Haase fired - norcard10 - 03-24-2024
(03-24-2024, 12:06 PM)MV72018 Wrote:(03-23-2024, 10:14 PM)norcard10 Wrote:(03-23-2024, 05:19 PM)terry Wrote: WSU was just eliminated. So if Kyle Smith is going to be our guy, we should know soon.
Or we could wait till the tournament is over to have more options hopefully.
I doubt that many promising coaches will be lining up for interviews with Muir for the Stanford job after the NCAA Tournament. At this point, the incoming coach for the Stanford men's basketball team will be faced with a more Herculean task than Troy Taylor faced as incoming football coach after a major swath of the team went into the portal, retired, or graduated. Stanford men's basketball is arguably at its nadir since 1986.
If the school paid $9M to Shaw, why won't they back up truck for MBB?
RE: Haase fired - BobK - 03-24-2024
A big part of the $9M was collecting deferred pay. It said that on the tax return.
Plus he took Stanford to three Rose Bowls. First coach do do that since the 1930s
RE: Haase fired - 82lsju - 03-24-2024
(03-24-2024, 02:26 PM)BobK Wrote: A big part of the $9M was collecting deferred pay. It said that on the tax return.
Plus he took Stanford to three Rose Bowls. First coach do do that since the 1930s
According to the most recent form 990 in CY21 Shaw made only $7.4m....
- base pay $5.8m (includes almost $0.5m in comp reported as deferred comp in a previous form 990)
- bonus and incentive compensation $0.8m
- other reportable compensation $0.7m
- retirement - $25k
- non-taxable benefits - $38k
https://bondholder-information.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj21416/files/media/file/stanford-fy22-form-990.pdf
the other four "highly compensated employees" listed are
- FRANK HANLEY CHIEF, PED CARDIOTHORACIC - $4.7m
- JAY KANG SR. MD, SMC - $2.5m
- MARK SHOBERG SR. MD, SMC - $2.5m
- YIPING WOO PROF. & CHAIR, CARDIO SURGERY - $2.7m
other people making $1m+ in other categories
officers
- ROBERT F. WALLACE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SMC - $5.1m
- MARTIN SHELL VP & CHIEF ERO - $1.7m
- ROBERT C. REIDY VP LAND, BUILDINGS & REAL EST - $1.7m
- RANDALL LIVINGSTON VP BUS AFFAIRS/CFO - $1.5m
- MARC TESSIER-LAVIGNE PRESIDENT/TRUSTEE - $1.1m
Key employees
- LLOYD B. MINOR DEAN, SCHOOL OF MEDICINE - $2.1m
RE: Haase fired - norcard10 - 03-24-2024
(03-24-2024, 03:58 PM)82lsju Wrote:(03-24-2024, 02:26 PM)BobK Wrote: A big part of the $9M was collecting deferred pay. It said that on the tax return.
Plus he took Stanford to three Rose Bowls. First coach do do that since the 1930s
According to the most recent form 990 in CY21 Shaw made only $7.4m....
- base pay $5.8m (includes almost $0.5m in comp reported as deferred comp in a previous form 990)
- bonus and incentive compensation $0.8m
- other reportable compensation $0.7m
- retirement - $25k
- non-taxable benefits - $38k
https://bondholder-information.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj21416/files/media/file/stanford-fy22-form-990.pdf
the other four "highly compensated employees" listed are
- FRANK HANLEY CHIEF, PED CARDIOTHORACIC - $4.7m
- JAY KANG SR. MD, SMC - $2.5m
- MARK SHOBERG SR. MD, SMC - $2.5m
- YIPING WOO PROF. & CHAIR, CARDIO SURGERY - $2.7m
other people making $1m+ in other categories
officers
- ROBERT F. WALLACE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SMC - $5.1m
- MARTIN SHELL VP & CHIEF ERO - $1.7m
- ROBERT C. REIDY VP LAND, BUILDINGS & REAL EST - $1.7m
- RANDALL LIVINGSTON VP BUS AFFAIRS/CFO - $1.5m
- MARC TESSIER-LAVIGNE PRESIDENT/TRUSTEE - $1.1m
Key employees
- LLOYD B. MINOR DEAN, SCHOOL OF MEDICINE - $2.1m
You have to invest to get results. If they can pay Shaw $7.3 during the down years, they can pony up $5M and be extremely competitive. https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/