[2006alum]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

Again - what's your interest here? You never posted until this week, and basically only about this. It's a little odd.

(Note: I am assuming AlwaysRight properly quoted the players. I haven't confirmed those quotes.)

AlwaysRight, thank you for posting this.  After all, 2006alum wrote earlier "I implore any of you to read the players statements. They are so obviously examples of "say you're leaving because of the coaching staff without saying you're leaving because of the coaching staff."  "

2006alum, why are you questioning the poster's interest?  He/she posted facts in that post.  If you have a issue with the accuracy of those facts, question that.

Frankly, I am ready to tune out this echo chamber of opinions, opinions about opinions, opinions about opinions about opinions, ad infinitum.

No one is forcing you to stay in this thread if you find its direction uninteresting.

And AlwaysRight cherry picked the only three vaguely favorable references to the coaching staffs out of 7 portal announcements. The other four said nothing, and several were quite damning. I'm beginning to wonder whether they are connected to one of the coaching staff members - which is fine - in fact, I'd welcome their perspective. But whereas the rest of us are all well known long-time fans of the program, I have no idea what this poster's agenda is.

[2006alum]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

Again - what's your interest here? You never posted until this week, and basically only about this. It's a little odd.

(Note: I am assuming AlwaysRight properly quoted the players. I haven't confirmed those quotes.)

AlwaysRight, thank you for posting this.  After all, 2006alum wrote earlier "I implore any of you to read the players statements. They are so obviously examples of "say you're leaving because of the coaching staff without saying you're leaving because of the coaching staff."  "

2006alum, why are you questioning the poster's interest?  He/she posted facts in that post.  If you have a issue with the accuracy of those facts, question that.

Frankly, I am ready to tune out this echo chamber of opinions, opinions about opinions, opinions about opinions about opinions, ad infinitum.

No one is forcing you to stay in this thread if you find its direction uninteresting.

And AlwaysRight cherry picked the only three vaguely favorable references to the coaching staffs out of 7 portal announcements. The other four said nothing, and several were quite damning. I'm beginning to wonder whether they are connected to one of the coaching staff members - which is fine - in fact, I'd welcome their perspective. But whereas the rest of us are all well known long-time fans of the program, I have no idea what this poster's agenda is.

[M T]

Obviously, the widespread belief among players the program is going downhill would be a clear indication the coaches are unable to convince their team that the future will be better than the past. That is all by itself a leadership problem, "toxic environment" or not. This is an area where the unlimited transfers with no penalty applied really encourages players to leave. If you think you can go to a "better" team (and get playing time), why not? The fact others are jumping ship adds a powerful FOMO factor for those that have not yet done so. Thus the cascade.

You leave out the matter of money.  I haven't directly read the statements of the players, but I don't recall anyone saying that they're taking a cut in pay to leave, or for that matter, saying they are going to be able to get more money elsewhere.  (Ok, Agara did mention "investment in me", but that could be many things beside NIL.)

Does the fact (if it is a fact) that they aren't thanking their NIL providers mean that this is a problem of NIL (from the school or from 3rd party NIL)?

If they entered the transfer portal as a negotiation tactic to get more NIL money at Stanford, I'd think they'd be effusive of their current NIL providers.

[M T]

Obviously, the widespread belief among players the program is going downhill would be a clear indication the coaches are unable to convince their team that the future will be better than the past. That is all by itself a leadership problem, "toxic environment" or not. This is an area where the unlimited transfers with no penalty applied really encourages players to leave. If you think you can go to a "better" team (and get playing time), why not? The fact others are jumping ship adds a powerful FOMO factor for those that have not yet done so. Thus the cascade.

You leave out the matter of money.  I haven't directly read the statements of the players, but I don't recall anyone saying that they're taking a cut in pay to leave, or for that matter, saying they are going to be able to get more money elsewhere.  (Ok, Agara did mention "investment in me", but that could be many things beside NIL.)

Does the fact (if it is a fact) that they aren't thanking their NIL providers mean that this is a problem of NIL (from the school or from 3rd party NIL)?

If they entered the transfer portal as a negotiation tactic to get more NIL money at Stanford, I'd think they'd be effusive of their current NIL providers.

[qwerty49]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

Again - what's your interest here? You never posted until this week, and basically only about this. It's a little odd.

(Note: I am assuming AlwaysRight properly quoted the players. I haven't confirmed those quotes.)

AlwaysRight, thank you for posting this.  After all, 2006alum wrote earlier "I implore any of you to read the players statements. They are so obviously examples of "say you're leaving because of the coaching staff without saying you're leaving because of the coaching staff."  "

2006alum, why are you questioning the poster's interest?  He/she posted facts in that post.  If you have a issue with the accuracy of those facts, question that.

Frankly, I am ready to tune out this echo chamber of opinions, opinions about opinions, opinions about opinions about opinions, ad infinitum.

I’ll be blunt here. I’ve been around for 30 years on these sites but I don’t post that often. However some recent posts really rub me the wrong way. 

2006alum, we get that you’re a rabid fan. But what gives you the right to question a new poster’s motivations just because he/she just opened a Cardboard account? Shouldn’t this community embrace newcomers rather than be suspicious of them? Isn’t that the spirit that will drive the expansion of Cardinal fandom - which we all agree is a good thing? Or are we just a snotty little circle of handwringers who want to wallow in the exclusivity of our despair?

Now that’s probably not your intent, but gosh, that’s how it comes across to me.  Lighten up, Francis!

[qwerty49]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

Again - what's your interest here? You never posted until this week, and basically only about this. It's a little odd.

(Note: I am assuming AlwaysRight properly quoted the players. I haven't confirmed those quotes.)

AlwaysRight, thank you for posting this.  After all, 2006alum wrote earlier "I implore any of you to read the players statements. They are so obviously examples of "say you're leaving because of the coaching staff without saying you're leaving because of the coaching staff."  "

2006alum, why are you questioning the poster's interest?  He/she posted facts in that post.  If you have a issue with the accuracy of those facts, question that.

Frankly, I am ready to tune out this echo chamber of opinions, opinions about opinions, opinions about opinions about opinions, ad infinitum.

I’ll be blunt here. I’ve been around for 30 years on these sites but I don’t post that often. However some recent posts really rub me the wrong way. 

2006alum, we get that you’re a rabid fan. But what gives you the right to question a new poster’s motivations just because he/she just opened a Cardboard account? Shouldn’t this community embrace newcomers rather than be suspicious of them? Isn’t that the spirit that will drive the expansion of Cardinal fandom - which we all agree is a good thing? Or are we just a snotty little circle of handwringers who want to wallow in the exclusivity of our despair?

Now that’s probably not your intent, but gosh, that’s how it comes across to me.  Lighten up, Francis!

[2006alum]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

Again - what's your interest here? You never posted until this week, and basically only about this. It's a little odd.

(Note: I am assuming AlwaysRight properly quoted the players. I haven't confirmed those quotes.)

AlwaysRight, thank you for posting this.  After all, 2006alum wrote earlier "I implore any of you to read the players statements. They are so obviously examples of "say you're leaving because of the coaching staff without saying you're leaving because of the coaching staff."  "

2006alum, why are you questioning the poster's interest?  He/she posted facts in that post.  If you have a issue with the accuracy of those facts, question that.

Frankly, I am ready to tune out this echo chamber of opinions, opinions about opinions, opinions about opinions about opinions, ad infinitum.

I’ll be blunt here. I’ve been around for 30 years on these sites but I don’t post that often. However some recent posts really rub me the wrong way. 

2006alum, we get that you’re a rabid fan. But what gives you the right to question a new poster’s motivations just because he/she just opened a Cardboard account? Shouldn’t this community embrace newcomers rather than be suspicious of them? Isn’t that the spirit that will drive the expansion of Cardinal fandom - which we all agree is a good thing? Or are we just a snotty little circle of handwringers who want to wallow in the exclusivity of our despair?

Now that’s probably not your intent, but gosh, that’s how it comes across to me.  Lighten up, Francis!

Perhaps my experience is informed by Lauren Betts's mom repeatedly posting a few years back consistently critical commentary about the coaches, the usage patterns for Betts, etc. If she had just said from the outset - hey, I'm Lauren Betts's mom, and I'm troubled by what I'm seeing! Fine. Great. We now know what the basis for their commentary is. But it got a little suss when they clearly had a motivated interest they refused to disclose.

Based on that experience, I am a little wary of new posters who only post about a specific topic, with what seems like an interest-motivated perspective. "Farmerguy" is similarly new to the board, introduced themselves and their interest in this topic, and it didn't bother me in the slightest.

But in any event, I'll stand down going forward, because I've pretty much said all I have to say, and this thread can carry on lamenting about NIL and the portal.

[2006alum]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

Again - what's your interest here? You never posted until this week, and basically only about this. It's a little odd.

(Note: I am assuming AlwaysRight properly quoted the players. I haven't confirmed those quotes.)

AlwaysRight, thank you for posting this.  After all, 2006alum wrote earlier "I implore any of you to read the players statements. They are so obviously examples of "say you're leaving because of the coaching staff without saying you're leaving because of the coaching staff."  "

2006alum, why are you questioning the poster's interest?  He/she posted facts in that post.  If you have a issue with the accuracy of those facts, question that.

Frankly, I am ready to tune out this echo chamber of opinions, opinions about opinions, opinions about opinions about opinions, ad infinitum.

I’ll be blunt here. I’ve been around for 30 years on these sites but I don’t post that often. However some recent posts really rub me the wrong way. 

2006alum, we get that you’re a rabid fan. But what gives you the right to question a new poster’s motivations just because he/she just opened a Cardboard account? Shouldn’t this community embrace newcomers rather than be suspicious of them? Isn’t that the spirit that will drive the expansion of Cardinal fandom - which we all agree is a good thing? Or are we just a snotty little circle of handwringers who want to wallow in the exclusivity of our despair?

Now that’s probably not your intent, but gosh, that’s how it comes across to me.  Lighten up, Francis!

Perhaps my experience is informed by Lauren Betts's mom repeatedly posting a few years back consistently critical commentary about the coaches, the usage patterns for Betts, etc. If she had just said from the outset - hey, I'm Lauren Betts's mom, and I'm troubled by what I'm seeing! Fine. Great. We now know what the basis for their commentary is. But it got a little suss when they clearly had a motivated interest they refused to disclose.

Based on that experience, I am a little wary of new posters who only post about a specific topic, with what seems like an interest-motivated perspective. "Farmerguy" is similarly new to the board, introduced themselves and their interest in this topic, and it didn't bother me in the slightest.

But in any event, I'll stand down going forward, because I've pretty much said all I have to say, and this thread can carry on lamenting about NIL and the portal.

[here4WBB]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

I think there is another fact that you might be discounting (credit to Griffins78 for starting the compilation of the following data):

2026 Transfers Out (so far):
Nunu Agara (Forward): Entered portal.
Lara Somfai (Forward): Committed to TCU.
Courtney Ogden (Forward) Entered portal.--grad transfer
Harper Peterson (Forward): Entered portal.
Mary Ashley Stevenson (Forward): Entered portal.
Carly Amborn (Guard): Entered portal
Chloe Clardy (Guard): Entered portal

2026 Transfers In (so far):
<none>

2025 Transfers Out:
Tess Heal (Guard): Transferred to Kansas State.
Jzaniya Harriel (Guard): Transferred to SMU--grad transfer

2025 Transfers In:
<none>

2024 Transfers Out:
Kiki Iriafen (Forward): Transferred to USC--grad transfer

2024 Transfers In:
Tess Heal from Santa Clara
Mary Ashley Stevenson from Purdue

2023 Transfers Out:
Lauren Betts (Center): transferred to UCLA
Indya Nivar (Guard): Transferred to North Carolina
Agnes Emma-Nnopu (Forward): Transferred to TCU--grad transfer

2023 Transfers In:
<none>

2022 Transfers Out:
Jana Van Gytenbeek (Guard): Transferred to Baylor
Jenna Brown to Notre Dame--grad transfer

2022 Transfers In:
<none>

2021 Transfers Out:
Maya Dodson to Notre Dame--grad transfer

2021 Transfers In: 
Jordan Hamilton from Northwestern--grad transfer

2020 Transfers Out:
DiJonai Carrington to Baylor--grad transfer
Estella Moschkau to Wisconsin--grad transfer

2020 Transfers In:
<none>

I accept that grad transfers belong in a class by themselves, but the fact is that Stanford currently has 6 non-grad-transfers in the portal which exceeds the total number of non-grad transfers over the previous 6 seasons. So if the coaches are not the reason why players are leaving, what is?

Thanks for this post, I would add 2017 Transfer Out:  Lili Thompson (Guard): Grad transfer to Notre Dame
Seven players now in portal ...

[here4WBB]

Lara said “This program has meant so much to me, and I will always be thankful for my coaches, teammates and the entire community that have supported me along the way.”

Nunu said “To my coaches, training staff, and support staff, thank you for your time, effort, and investment in me. Thank you for believing in me and helping shape me into the person I am today. I am truly grateful.”

Courtney said: “To my coaches, thank you for the chance to compete and be a part of the women’s basketball program.”

Facts.

I think there is another fact that you might be discounting (credit to Griffins78 for starting the compilation of the following data):

2026 Transfers Out (so far):
Nunu Agara (Forward): Entered portal.
Lara Somfai (Forward): Committed to TCU.
Courtney Ogden (Forward) Entered portal.--grad transfer
Harper Peterson (Forward): Entered portal.
Mary Ashley Stevenson (Forward): Entered portal.
Carly Amborn (Guard): Entered portal
Chloe Clardy (Guard): Entered portal

2026 Transfers In (so far):
<none>

2025 Transfers Out:
Tess Heal (Guard): Transferred to Kansas State.
Jzaniya Harriel (Guard): Transferred to SMU--grad transfer

2025 Transfers In:
<none>

2024 Transfers Out:
Kiki Iriafen (Forward): Transferred to USC--grad transfer

2024 Transfers In:
Tess Heal from Santa Clara
Mary Ashley Stevenson from Purdue

2023 Transfers Out:
Lauren Betts (Center): transferred to UCLA
Indya Nivar (Guard): Transferred to North Carolina
Agnes Emma-Nnopu (Forward): Transferred to TCU--grad transfer

2023 Transfers In:
<none>

2022 Transfers Out:
Jana Van Gytenbeek (Guard): Transferred to Baylor
Jenna Brown to Notre Dame--grad transfer

2022 Transfers In:
<none>

2021 Transfers Out:
Maya Dodson to Notre Dame--grad transfer

2021 Transfers In: 
Jordan Hamilton from Northwestern--grad transfer

2020 Transfers Out:
DiJonai Carrington to Baylor--grad transfer
Estella Moschkau to Wisconsin--grad transfer

2020 Transfers In:
<none>

I accept that grad transfers belong in a class by themselves, but the fact is that Stanford currently has 6 non-grad-transfers in the portal which exceeds the total number of non-grad transfers over the previous 6 seasons. So if the coaches are not the reason why players are leaving, what is?

Thanks for this post, I would add 2017 Transfer Out:  Lili Thompson (Guard): Grad transfer to Notre Dame
Seven players now in portal ...

[stopandpop]

Obviously, the widespread belief among players the program is going downhill would be a clear indication the coaches are unable to convince their team that the future will be better than the past. That is all by itself a leadership problem, "toxic environment" or not. This is an area where the unlimited transfers with no penalty applied really encourages players to leave. If you think you can go to a "better" team (and get playing time), why not? The fact others are jumping ship adds a powerful FOMO factor for those that have not yet done so. Thus the cascade.

You leave out the matter of money.  I haven't directly read the statements of the players, but I don't recall anyone saying that they're taking a cut in pay to leave, or for that matter, saying they are going to be able to get more money elsewhere.  (Ok, Agara did mention "investment in me", but that could be many things beside NIL.)

Does the fact (if it is a fact) that they aren't thanking their NIL providers mean that this is a problem of NIL (from the school or from 3rd party NIL)?

If they entered the transfer portal as a negotiation tactic to get more NIL money at Stanford, I'd think they'd be effusive of their current NIL providers.

From a far distance, I cannot begin to know and understand what's going on. You are all so much closer to the situation.  I always looked at Stanford women's basketball purely from a performance standpoint; that Coach Paye (in 2 seasons), could not develop and put on the court a strong, highly-competitive Stanford team despite having multiple All-American HS players; that her offensive structure and schemes looked like something from the 1990s and was totally ineffective.

I have no idea about possible player allegations and other issues many of you have brought up.  I'm ignorant.  What I do see is: 1) KP should have been let go after the BYU game because she could not get her collection of talent to perform at a much higher level and be competitive in the ACC and 2) a total lack of decisive leadership by Mr. Donahoe who reminds me of the captain of the Titanic.

[stopandpop]

Obviously, the widespread belief among players the program is going downhill would be a clear indication the coaches are unable to convince their team that the future will be better than the past. That is all by itself a leadership problem, "toxic environment" or not. This is an area where the unlimited transfers with no penalty applied really encourages players to leave. If you think you can go to a "better" team (and get playing time), why not? The fact others are jumping ship adds a powerful FOMO factor for those that have not yet done so. Thus the cascade.

You leave out the matter of money.  I haven't directly read the statements of the players, but I don't recall anyone saying that they're taking a cut in pay to leave, or for that matter, saying they are going to be able to get more money elsewhere.  (Ok, Agara did mention "investment in me", but that could be many things beside NIL.)

Does the fact (if it is a fact) that they aren't thanking their NIL providers mean that this is a problem of NIL (from the school or from 3rd party NIL)?

If they entered the transfer portal as a negotiation tactic to get more NIL money at Stanford, I'd think they'd be effusive of their current NIL providers.

From a far distance, I cannot begin to know and understand what's going on. You are all so much closer to the situation.  I always looked at Stanford women's basketball purely from a performance standpoint; that Coach Paye (in 2 seasons), could not develop and put on the court a strong, highly-competitive Stanford team despite having multiple All-American HS players; that her offensive structure and schemes looked like something from the 1990s and was totally ineffective.

I have no idea about possible player allegations and other issues many of you have brought up.  I'm ignorant.  What I do see is: 1) KP should have been let go after the BYU game because she could not get her collection of talent to perform at a much higher level and be competitive in the ACC and 2) a total lack of decisive leadership by Mr. Donahoe who reminds me of the captain of the Titanic.

[jonnyss]

I have no idea about possible player allegations and other issues many of you have brought up.  I'm ignorant.  What I do see is: 1) KP should have been let go after the BYU game because she could not get her collection of talent to perform at a much higher level and be competitive in the ACC and 2) a total lack of decisive leadership by Mr. Donahoe who reminds me of the captain of the Titanic.

i just emailed donahoe:

Stanford athletics reacted very slowly when ucla and usc left for the big 10. can we please react more quickly this time?

i am concerned we may once again close the barn door after the horse has left.

must you remain silent? may i respectfully suggest you make some sort of statement? if you have legal concerns, make it constructive rather than blaming -- for example, "i am of course concerned about the large number of women's basketball players who have entered the portal. please know that we are talking to all involved and hoping to formulate a path forward as soon as possible."

[jonnyss]

I have no idea about possible player allegations and other issues many of you have brought up.  I'm ignorant.  What I do see is: 1) KP should have been let go after the BYU game because she could not get her collection of talent to perform at a much higher level and be competitive in the ACC and 2) a total lack of decisive leadership by Mr. Donahoe who reminds me of the captain of the Titanic.

i just emailed donahoe:

Stanford athletics reacted very slowly when ucla and usc left for the big 10. can we please react more quickly this time?

i am concerned we may once again close the barn door after the horse has left.

must you remain silent? may i respectfully suggest you make some sort of statement? if you have legal concerns, make it constructive rather than blaming -- for example, "i am of course concerned about the large number of women's basketball players who have entered the portal. please know that we are talking to all involved and hoping to formulate a path forward as soon as possible."

[Goose]

I agree with you to a point, Goose. I, too, have no idea about the toxic environment accusations. But I do believe that the team did not perform up to the levels of the accumulative talent.

FWLIW, I agree that given the reputation of the incoming talent plus the somewhat known abilities of the previous team I too expected a better performance.

When Lauren Betts or NiJaree Canady transferred, there was not a mass exodus of non-grad transfers from WBB or Softball. However, WBB is going to miss the NCAA tournament for the third straight season next year while Softball is going to make the tournament for the second straight season after Canady left.

Exactly. The softball team believed they were getting better and that staying would not involve resigning yourself to continually missing the tournament. The basketball team entered a "wait and see" mode when Betts left. There was still talent enough and morale enough to believe good performances and at least Sweet 16 opportunities existed. IMO the freshmen looked at the situation at the end of this year and collectively decided the program was on the way down for the foreseeable future (as many on this board have also). They probably all knew that Somfai wasn't happy and at least might leave. That undoubtedly started them looking. Paye simply didn't have the credibility/relationships with her players to either convince or demonstrate the future would be better, not worse. Allister did.

I don't buy that the transfer rule "encourages" players to leave. Jessica Allister is able to retain enough talent to be competitive, and she has to deal with the same rules as Kate Paye.

At a minimum, it makes it realistic. Sitting out a year was a big risk. More importantly the rule makes it possible for other coaches to plan on acquiring transfer players regularly. That creates a demand for transfers that previously did not exist. That is "encouragement". It is an of very large proportion inducement. This strong demand also inevitably leads to what amounts to "tampering". There are lots of ways to let players you want know in an ongoing manner that you have a place for them if/when they want it. That definitely encourages players to leave. There is a "grass is greener" effect that is quite powerful, especially if you have no confidence in your current program's future. The people recruiting you can say "yes" a lot and later not deliver. You don't know that until you have arrived at your new program.

[Goose]

I agree with you to a point, Goose. I, too, have no idea about the toxic environment accusations. But I do believe that the team did not perform up to the levels of the accumulative talent.

FWLIW, I agree that given the reputation of the incoming talent plus the somewhat known abilities of the previous team I too expected a better performance.

When Lauren Betts or NiJaree Canady transferred, there was not a mass exodus of non-grad transfers from WBB or Softball. However, WBB is going to miss the NCAA tournament for the third straight season next year while Softball is going to make the tournament for the second straight season after Canady left.

Exactly. The softball team believed they were getting better and that staying would not involve resigning yourself to continually missing the tournament. The basketball team entered a "wait and see" mode when Betts left. There was still talent enough and morale enough to believe good performances and at least Sweet 16 opportunities existed. IMO the freshmen looked at the situation at the end of this year and collectively decided the program was on the way down for the foreseeable future (as many on this board have also). They probably all knew that Somfai wasn't happy and at least might leave. That undoubtedly started them looking. Paye simply didn't have the credibility/relationships with her players to either convince or demonstrate the future would be better, not worse. Allister did.

I don't buy that the transfer rule "encourages" players to leave. Jessica Allister is able to retain enough talent to be competitive, and she has to deal with the same rules as Kate Paye.

At a minimum, it makes it realistic. Sitting out a year was a big risk. More importantly the rule makes it possible for other coaches to plan on acquiring transfer players regularly. That creates a demand for transfers that previously did not exist. That is "encouragement". It is an of very large proportion inducement. This strong demand also inevitably leads to what amounts to "tampering". There are lots of ways to let players you want know in an ongoing manner that you have a place for them if/when they want it. That definitely encourages players to leave. There is a "grass is greener" effect that is quite powerful, especially if you have no confidence in your current program's future. The people recruiting you can say "yes" a lot and later not deliver. You don't know that until you have arrived at your new program.

[crackpot]

Excellent post 2006.  Sums it all up
The fact that only one has committed of the 7 leads me to believe there are good conversations going on with the players both in the portal and not

+1

[crackpot]

Excellent post 2006.  Sums it all up
The fact that only one has committed of the 7 leads me to believe there are good conversations going on with the players both in the portal and not

+1

[petersalas]

I really hope so! 

Excellent post 2006.  Sums it all up
The fact that only one has committed of the 7 leads me to believe there are good conversations going on with the players both in the portal and not

[petersalas]

I really hope so! 

Excellent post 2006.  Sums it all up
The fact that only one has committed of the 7 leads me to believe there are good conversations going on with the players both in the portal and not

[MV72018]

Excellent post 2006.  Sums it all up
The fact that only one has committed of the 7 leads me to believe there are good conversations going on with the players both in the portal and not

One alternate explanation: they decided to jump ship so recently, post-Lara, they haven't yet had enough time to forge serious relationships with other programs that could eventually lead to commitments to them.

[MV72018]

Excellent post 2006.  Sums it all up
The fact that only one has committed of the 7 leads me to believe there are good conversations going on with the players both in the portal and not

One alternate explanation: they decided to jump ship so recently, post-Lara, they haven't yet had enough time to forge serious relationships with other programs that could eventually lead to commitments to them.

[Griffins78]

Has anyone received a response from John Donahoe?

[Griffins78]

Has anyone received a response from John Donahoe?

[SkiBum80]

I've read all the posts on this thread and honestly there's a lot of good observations from lots of folks.
One small suggestion I'd make, is that I would not try to count too heavily on the exact wording of what players announce when they enter the portal.
Yes I realize it is tempting to try to discern subtle inferences out of it.  But that is an unreliable exercise.
Because so many of these announcements are really very similar in nature. 
Complementary to everyone, grateful for the past opportunities, time to move on, to open a new chapter, etc.
In fact I wonder how many are actually written by the players or rather by an agent or legal advisor?
If by the player, is it wordage mostly borrowed from some other prior announcement of someone else?
The real "tell" is not in the wording of the announcement IMO, it is that by entering the portal they are voting with their feet, either for sure, or unless something big causes them to change their minds.

[SkiBum80]

I've read all the posts on this thread and honestly there's a lot of good observations from lots of folks.
One small suggestion I'd make, is that I would not try to count too heavily on the exact wording of what players announce when they enter the portal.
Yes I realize it is tempting to try to discern subtle inferences out of it.  But that is an unreliable exercise.
Because so many of these announcements are really very similar in nature. 
Complementary to everyone, grateful for the past opportunities, time to move on, to open a new chapter, etc.
In fact I wonder how many are actually written by the players or rather by an agent or legal advisor?
If by the player, is it wordage mostly borrowed from some other prior announcement of someone else?
The real "tell" is not in the wording of the announcement IMO, it is that by entering the portal they are voting with their feet, either for sure, or unless something big causes them to change their minds.

[BostonCard]

I don’t think you can analogize between softball and women’s basketball; Cannady aside, there is just a lot less money in softball than there is in basketball, and the value of a Stanford degree is probably much higher given that there is no professional league even remotely analogous to the WNBA.  I think football and men’s basketball are the two comps, and both of those sports have have a substantial number of early departures most years, though nowhere near the number we have this year in women’s basketball.  No sport is completely unaffected; witness the fact that a number of wrestling players have been lured away by NIL money at other schools, and that was after our most successful season ever!  We’ve also had losses in women’s tennis, both men’s and women’s swimming, women’s volleyball, and I’m sure others but for some of the lower profile, the magnitude of the problem is much smaller than for the higher profile sports, because there is just less money involved, so the relative value of a Stanford degree is higher. 

I agree with 2006 that the tone of the posts announcing player’s departures to the portal sound like they are being made by people who are profoundly unhappy with the coaching staff.  Given that a perfunctory acknowledgement/thanks of everyone involved is de rigueur, the posts read like they went out of their way not to mention the coaches (the old “if you don’t have something nice to say…”). Of course, a coach’s job is not necessarily to be loved or even liked by the players, and there is a difference between abuse and leaving players cold.  I think if the allegations of abuse are substantiated, Paye should be fired for cause.

BC

---

I've read all the posts on this thread and honestly there's a lot of good observations from lots of folks.
One small suggestion I'd make, is that I would not try to count too heavily on the exact wording of what players announce when they enter the portal.
Yes I realize it is tempting to try to discern subtle inferences out of it.  But that is an unreliable exercise.
Because so many of these announcements are really very similar in nature. 
Complementary to everyone, grateful for the past opportunities, time to move on, to open a new chapter, etc.
In fact I wonder how many are actually written by the players or rather by an agent or legal advisor?
If by the player, is it wordage mostly borrowed from some other prior announcement of someone else?
The real "tell" is not in the wording of the announcement IMO, it is that by entering the portal they are voting with their feet, either for sure, or unless something big causes them to change their minds.

I mean, if the fact that players are entering the portal is proof that something is wrong, should we be firing our wrestling coach?  I understand what you mean about not reading too much into announcements, but I think what is jarring is how several of the announcements from the women transferring out didn’t even have boilerplate text on the coaching staff that it seems conspicuous because you’ve come to expect it to be “Complementary to everyone, grateful for the past opportunities, time to move on, to open a new chapter”.  I may be reading too much into it, so that is a fair criticism, but it was quite jarring to me.

BC

[BostonCard]

I don’t think you can analogize between softball and women’s basketball; Cannady aside, there is just a lot less money in softball than there is in basketball, and the value of a Stanford degree is probably much higher given that there is no professional league even remotely analogous to the WNBA.  I think football and men’s basketball are the two comps, and both of those sports have have a substantial number of early departures most years, though nowhere near the number we have this year in women’s basketball.  No sport is completely unaffected; witness the fact that a number of wrestling players have been lured away by NIL money at other schools, and that was after our most successful season ever!  We’ve also had losses in women’s tennis, both men’s and women’s swimming, women’s volleyball, and I’m sure others but for some of the lower profile, the magnitude of the problem is much smaller than for the higher profile sports, because there is just less money involved, so the relative value of a Stanford degree is higher. 

I agree with 2006 that the tone of the posts announcing player’s departures to the portal sound like they are being made by people who are profoundly unhappy with the coaching staff.  Given that a perfunctory acknowledgement/thanks of everyone involved is de rigueur, the posts read like they went out of their way not to mention the coaches (the old “if you don’t have something nice to say…”). Of course, a coach’s job is not necessarily to be loved or even liked by the players, and there is a difference between abuse and leaving players cold.  I think if the allegations of abuse are substantiated, Paye should be fired for cause.

BC

---

I've read all the posts on this thread and honestly there's a lot of good observations from lots of folks.
One small suggestion I'd make, is that I would not try to count too heavily on the exact wording of what players announce when they enter the portal.
Yes I realize it is tempting to try to discern subtle inferences out of it.  But that is an unreliable exercise.
Because so many of these announcements are really very similar in nature. 
Complementary to everyone, grateful for the past opportunities, time to move on, to open a new chapter, etc.
In fact I wonder how many are actually written by the players or rather by an agent or legal advisor?
If by the player, is it wordage mostly borrowed from some other prior announcement of someone else?
The real "tell" is not in the wording of the announcement IMO, it is that by entering the portal they are voting with their feet, either for sure, or unless something big causes them to change their minds.

I mean, if the fact that players are entering the portal is proof that something is wrong, should we be firing our wrestling coach?  I understand what you mean about not reading too much into announcements, but I think what is jarring is how several of the announcements from the women transferring out didn’t even have boilerplate text on the coaching staff that it seems conspicuous because you’ve come to expect it to be “Complementary to everyone, grateful for the past opportunities, time to move on, to open a new chapter”.  I may be reading too much into it, so that is a fair criticism, but it was quite jarring to me.

BC

[jonnyss]

btw there is of course $ cost to stanford in waiting. maples seats 7000. if average paid attendance drops from 5000 to 1000 that's 4000 seats x average price of $22 (range from $15 to 30). around $90,000 + per game + say $10k in refreshments. x 15 home games is  somewhere around 1.5 million. hosting ncaa 1st and 2nd rounds is about another $200k. so 1.7 million lost in revenue each year til we get competitive again. is kate's buyout more than 1.7 million?

and that doesn't count turning off donors.

[jonnyss]

btw there is of course $ cost to stanford in waiting. maples seats 7000. if average paid attendance drops from 5000 to 1000 that's 4000 seats x average price of $22 (range from $15 to 30). around $90,000 + per game + say $10k in refreshments. x 15 home games is  somewhere around 1.5 million. hosting ncaa 1st and 2nd rounds is about another $200k. so 1.7 million lost in revenue each year til we get competitive again. is kate's buyout more than 1.7 million?

and that doesn't count turning off donors.

[Card10Fan]

Has anyone received a response from John Donahoe?

Nope. Only response I got was from President Levin thanking me for the note and my support of WBB. 

Charmin Smith at CAL's salary was around 530K last year. Is Paye much more than 600k? I doubt it. She's already two years into what a 4 or 5 year contract? Buyout is not that crazy at all. What are we waiting for....

[Card10Fan]

Has anyone received a response from John Donahoe?

Nope. Only response I got was from President Levin thanking me for the note and my support of WBB. 

Charmin Smith at CAL's salary was around 530K last year. Is Paye much more than 600k? I doubt it. She's already two years into what a 4 or 5 year contract? Buyout is not that crazy at all. What are we waiting for....

[BostonCard]

When Dawkins was fired, the next guy was not much better and we spent 8 subsequent years with an aggregate sub-.500 record.  Smith has so far been much better than Haase, but that’s not a guarantee that we will make it to the tourney again; so far he has delivered better play, but not a tournament appearance, and his best player just declared for the NBA draft and two other players have entered the portal.

When David Shaw retired (perhaps under some pressure) after many people on this board had wanted him out for several years, his successor not only did not improve upon his worst years (literally went 3-9 which was as bad as the worst of Shaw’s years), it turns out he got fired for a scandal.  The man to replace him (permanently, as Reich was always a 1-year hire) is already being decried as a poor hire by people on this board (even though he hasn’t coached a single game).  Going further back, when Buddy Teevens was hired, Wlat Harris wound up being, incredibly, worse.  Not every hire is going to be a Jim Harbaugh; in fact, most are not.

Will the fact that the replacement could be as bad (or worse) than Paye be a reason to retain her?  Of course not.  But when you do the projected financials, you can’t just assume that there’s a $1.7 million in sales that we aren’t getting by retaining Paye; it has to be discounted by the probability that her successor will be able to return us to an attendance 5000/game and hosting the first two rounds of the tournament.  More likely, we do somewhat better, attendance improves somewhat, maybe we make it back to the tournament but are not a top-4 seed, etc, and the extra revenue is a few hundred thousand, not $1.7 million.  A buyout rarely pays for itself.

BC

[BostonCard]

When Dawkins was fired, the next guy was not much better and we spent 8 subsequent years with an aggregate sub-.500 record.  Smith has so far been much better than Haase, but that’s not a guarantee that we will make it to the tourney again; so far he has delivered better play, but not a tournament appearance, and his best player just declared for the NBA draft and two other players have entered the portal.

When David Shaw retired (perhaps under some pressure) after many people on this board had wanted him out for several years, his successor not only did not improve upon his worst years (literally went 3-9 which was as bad as the worst of Shaw’s years), it turns out he got fired for a scandal.  The man to replace him (permanently, as Reich was always a 1-year hire) is already being decried as a poor hire by people on this board (even though he hasn’t coached a single game).  Going further back, when Buddy Teevens was hired, Wlat Harris wound up being, incredibly, worse.  Not every hire is going to be a Jim Harbaugh; in fact, most are not.

Will the fact that the replacement could be as bad (or worse) than Paye be a reason to retain her?  Of course not.  But when you do the projected financials, you can’t just assume that there’s a $1.7 million in sales that we aren’t getting by retaining Paye; it has to be discounted by the probability that her successor will be able to return us to an attendance 5000/game and hosting the first two rounds of the tournament.  More likely, we do somewhat better, attendance improves somewhat, maybe we make it back to the tournament but are not a top-4 seed, etc, and the extra revenue is a few hundred thousand, not $1.7 million.  A buyout rarely pays for itself.

BC

[StanfordMatt]

Just spitballing here but if there's any truth to the rumors of abuse, part of the delay and silence may be Stanford seeing if they can drum up a case to terminate Paye for cause (or generate enough evidence to scare her into a settlement agreement for less than full freight).

[StanfordMatt]

Just spitballing here but if there's any truth to the rumors of abuse, part of the delay and silence may be Stanford seeing if they can drum up a case to terminate Paye for cause (or generate enough evidence to scare her into a settlement agreement for less than full freight).

[martyup]

Maybe all of the outgoing transfers in the aggregate of all sports has something to do with the STANFORD HATES FUN environment on campus.

[martyup]

Maybe all of the outgoing transfers in the aggregate of all sports has something to do with the STANFORD HATES FUN environment on campus.

[KenCard]

Has anyone received a response from John Donahoe?

Yes, I have.  Here it is.

"Hi Ken,
Thank you for reaching out and for taking the time to share your perspective. We value the voices of our alumni community and appreciate your continued engagement with Stanford Athletics.
This is a period of significant change across college athletics, particularly with the transfer portal, and we understand the concerns you’ve raised. We recognize the urgency of this moment and are actively engaged, with a deep commitment to getting this right.
I am reviewing the feedback we are receiving and incorporating it into our ongoing discussions and standard year-end review process. We are being thoughtful in our approach and expect to share more publicly in the coming week.
Thank you again for writing.
John"

[KenCard]

Has anyone received a response from John Donahoe?

Yes, I have.  Here it is.

"Hi Ken,
Thank you for reaching out and for taking the time to share your perspective. We value the voices of our alumni community and appreciate your continued engagement with Stanford Athletics.
This is a period of significant change across college athletics, particularly with the transfer portal, and we understand the concerns you’ve raised. We recognize the urgency of this moment and are actively engaged, with a deep commitment to getting this right.
I am reviewing the feedback we are receiving and incorporating it into our ongoing discussions and standard year-end review process. We are being thoughtful in our approach and expect to share more publicly in the coming week.
Thank you again for writing.
John"