[Goose]

Even ISW now says that Ukraine is preparing to withdraw from Lysychansk. Major losses in the Donbas over the past few days.

Right thing to do. Unfortunate, but one can't let symbolism stand in the way of good tactics. Last thing Ukraine needs is a Verdun. Mariupol was a different case, as holding on there kept the M14 closed for a very long time.

It is really, really too bad that Ukraine did not have the counter-battery power to adequately attrit the Russian artillery. If we in the US haven't worked out a feasible plan with the Ukrainian military to do that by now, everybody should just stand down and avoid as much death as possible. That is not to say the plan can't fail, or need to be modified, but if no such (at least halfway reasonable) plan exists it is borderline criminal on our part to continue dribbling in military hardware that won't do the job.

It is not as if we didn't know Russia had lots of artillery and plenty of experience using it. We may have though the Russians weren't going to press on, but you must plan for the strategies that they would/could use to continue the war in the best way possible for them. They did press on, and Ukraine was not prepared to fight an artillery battle. That is our fault. We needed a plan for that and we didn't have one. We knew this in March and did not take the necessary steps. Ukraine was already asking for  MLRS/HIMARS because they could see it possibly coming. This is on us IMHO.

[Goose]

Even ISW now says that Ukraine is preparing to withdraw from Lysychansk. Major losses in the Donbas over the past few days.

Right thing to do. Unfortunate, but one can't let symbolism stand in the way of good tactics. Last thing Ukraine needs is a Verdun. Mariupol was a different case, as holding on there kept the M14 closed for a very long time.

It is really, really too bad that Ukraine did not have the counter-battery power to adequately attrit the Russian artillery. If we in the US haven't worked out a feasible plan with the Ukrainian military to do that by now, everybody should just stand down and avoid as much death as possible. That is not to say the plan can't fail, or need to be modified, but if no such (at least halfway reasonable) plan exists it is borderline criminal on our part to continue dribbling in military hardware that won't do the job.

It is not as if we didn't know Russia had lots of artillery and plenty of experience using it. We may have though the Russians weren't going to press on, but you must plan for the strategies that they would/could use to continue the war in the best way possible for them. They did press on, and Ukraine was not prepared to fight an artillery battle. That is our fault. We needed a plan for that and we didn't have one. We knew this in March and did not take the necessary steps. Ukraine was already asking for  MLRS/HIMARS because they could see it possibly coming. This is on us IMHO.