[Goose]

If you asked a Ukrainian if we should give them billions of dollars worth of military aid, or just not get involved because we can't give them 10 times that amount, they would probably assume you were a Russian.

Lots of brave Ukrainians are dying, so we should not involve ourselves. Head scratcher, to me.

I understand you point. I agree that the Ukrainian government will take any help it can get. However, it isn't a matter of X or 10X. It is "enough" or "not enough". There are two issues here IMHO. First, do we have a way forward where Ukraine wins if we give them X, for some X, and second, are we willing and able to give them that X. If we think the answer to either of these questions is no, we need to tell Ukraine that and stop. If, OTOH, the answers to both questions are yes, we need to be sure to make that happen.  I happen to believe the answers are probably yes, but we have to stop dithering. It isn't going to be easy. It may require Ukraine just hanging on until they have developed the necessary striking power.

OTOH, if we can't or won't do what our best guess says we need to, or if Ukraine can't do what we think is required, we are just prolonging a losing war that will have very bad repercussions both for Ukraine and for us. We have a habit recently of going into wars of choice and then deciding that this is too hard or that this really isn't in our critical national interest. I don't want this to be another one of those. If we aren't all "in", we should be "out". You may not agree.

UPDATE: https://www.yahoo.com/news/catastrophe-p...00357.html Very interesting that the UK is going to train 10K Ukrainian troops over 3 months. If that is part of the plan, I would expect the US could also train a significant number of troops. I do like the wording:

This comes just in time, as the Ukrainian army needs to be replenished, with not just cooks and academics who volunteered to fight, but with professional soldiers. And the UK will train them for us.

Unfortunate this effort is only beginning now. Three months from now the weather will start to change for the worse in Ukraine, making offensive activity significantly more difficult. However, it does rain a lot all summer so maybe not that big a difference. Looks like hanging on for a while (next spring?) may be in the cards for Ukraine. Russia is undoubtedly also training troops, but probably troops who really don't want to be there.
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status...06711.html shows what Ukraine has been dealing with. Looks a lot like https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/91198...photograph

[Goose]

If you asked a Ukrainian if we should give them billions of dollars worth of military aid, or just not get involved because we can't give them 10 times that amount, they would probably assume you were a Russian.

Lots of brave Ukrainians are dying, so we should not involve ourselves. Head scratcher, to me.

I understand you point. I agree that the Ukrainian government will take any help it can get. However, it isn't a matter of X or 10X. It is "enough" or "not enough". There are two issues here IMHO. First, do we have a way forward where Ukraine wins if we give them X, for some X, and second, are we willing and able to give them that X. If we think the answer to either of these questions is no, we need to tell Ukraine that and stop. If, OTOH, the answers to both questions are yes, we need to be sure to make that happen.  I happen to believe the answers are probably yes, but we have to stop dithering. It isn't going to be easy. It may require Ukraine just hanging on until they have developed the necessary striking power.

OTOH, if we can't or won't do what our best guess says we need to, or if Ukraine can't do what we think is required, we are just prolonging a losing war that will have very bad repercussions both for Ukraine and for us. We have a habit recently of going into wars of choice and then deciding that this is too hard or that this really isn't in our critical national interest. I don't want this to be another one of those. If we aren't all "in", we should be "out". You may not agree.

UPDATE: https://www.yahoo.com/news/catastrophe-p...00357.html Very interesting that the UK is going to train 10K Ukrainian troops over 3 months. If that is part of the plan, I would expect the US could also train a significant number of troops. I do like the wording:

This comes just in time, as the Ukrainian army needs to be replenished, with not just cooks and academics who volunteered to fight, but with professional soldiers. And the UK will train them for us.

Unfortunate this effort is only beginning now. Three months from now the weather will start to change for the worse in Ukraine, making offensive activity significantly more difficult. However, it does rain a lot all summer so maybe not that big a difference. Looks like hanging on for a while (next spring?) may be in the cards for Ukraine. Russia is undoubtedly also training troops, but probably troops who really don't want to be there.
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status...06711.html shows what Ukraine has been dealing with. Looks a lot like https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/91198...photograph