[Goose]

Perhaps an encircling maneuver to trap Russian forces on the other side would be more devastating, but reducing that force would still require time and Ukrainian blood. If Ukraine can just get them to leave I'm sure they'll be happy with that, just like earlier in the war when they basically shot at the Russians as they fled from around Kiev without trying to trap them in pockets. They still killed a lot of Russians that way. And plenty of Russian's may surrender anyways once they realize there won't be room on the ferry.

I absolutely agree that taking back Kherson will be a victory even if most of the Russians successfully retreat. We can always hope that the flight of the "high command" but not the withdrawal of all their forces will result in significant Russian losses when they do attempt to withdraw. This withdrawal would also force the withdrawal of the forces north and west of Kherson that rely on the same supply lines. In short, maybe Russia will mess this up badly enough to do real damage! We can hope. However, just has happened in the retreat from Kiev, the forces that withdrew showed up in the Donbas. Yes, there weren't quite as many as there were the time before, but they kept coming.

This is still the easiest first step, and time is probably not in Ukraine's favor for a big offensive maneuver before October when the mud will be an issue.

For sure a big offensive is not a good idea if you are not trained for it,  resourced for it, and not ready to do it. Actually, if they were ready this is an ideal time for it, because they could dislocate the Russian forces badly and when the Russians (inevitably) re-organized themselves the weather would greatly hinder any counter attack attempted by the Russians. The only downside would be that if one expected a Russian collapse the bad weather would prevent exploitation all the way into/through Crimea.

They still have many soldiers out of the country training as well.

This is an extremely good point. Today Sweden offered to train Ukrainians as well. It may be that Ukraine felt it needed better trained troops to do what they need to do in a mobile assault, and this current training effort is part of that. Could be a very good and necessary thing. Better to realize that and not suffer casualties to find it out.

But with mud and then winter coming, I would much rather have Ukraine's supply lines and rear situation than Russia's.

Not so sure I agree. Russia's economy is bad, Ukraine's is much, much worse. There are many displaced persons in Ukraine that will need food and heat. Russia doesn't have that problem. Russia can also sit back and launch all the "junk" they can find that will fly in indiscriminate attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and population. Ukraine can't do much in answer. Russia can also fire artillery for harassment and interdiction in far greater quantities than Ukraine can.
One thing Ukraine does have working for them is Spetsnaz operations and partisan activities. Hopefully Ukraine can get trained up and ready to go so when spring comes they can do real damage that Russia simply doesn't expect.

[Goose]

Perhaps an encircling maneuver to trap Russian forces on the other side would be more devastating, but reducing that force would still require time and Ukrainian blood. If Ukraine can just get them to leave I'm sure they'll be happy with that, just like earlier in the war when they basically shot at the Russians as they fled from around Kiev without trying to trap them in pockets. They still killed a lot of Russians that way. And plenty of Russian's may surrender anyways once they realize there won't be room on the ferry.

I absolutely agree that taking back Kherson will be a victory even if most of the Russians successfully retreat. We can always hope that the flight of the "high command" but not the withdrawal of all their forces will result in significant Russian losses when they do attempt to withdraw. This withdrawal would also force the withdrawal of the forces north and west of Kherson that rely on the same supply lines. In short, maybe Russia will mess this up badly enough to do real damage! We can hope. However, just has happened in the retreat from Kiev, the forces that withdrew showed up in the Donbas. Yes, there weren't quite as many as there were the time before, but they kept coming.

This is still the easiest first step, and time is probably not in Ukraine's favor for a big offensive maneuver before October when the mud will be an issue.

For sure a big offensive is not a good idea if you are not trained for it,  resourced for it, and not ready to do it. Actually, if they were ready this is an ideal time for it, because they could dislocate the Russian forces badly and when the Russians (inevitably) re-organized themselves the weather would greatly hinder any counter attack attempted by the Russians. The only downside would be that if one expected a Russian collapse the bad weather would prevent exploitation all the way into/through Crimea.

They still have many soldiers out of the country training as well.

This is an extremely good point. Today Sweden offered to train Ukrainians as well. It may be that Ukraine felt it needed better trained troops to do what they need to do in a mobile assault, and this current training effort is part of that. Could be a very good and necessary thing. Better to realize that and not suffer casualties to find it out.

But with mud and then winter coming, I would much rather have Ukraine's supply lines and rear situation than Russia's.

Not so sure I agree. Russia's economy is bad, Ukraine's is much, much worse. There are many displaced persons in Ukraine that will need food and heat. Russia doesn't have that problem. Russia can also sit back and launch all the "junk" they can find that will fly in indiscriminate attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and population. Ukraine can't do much in answer. Russia can also fire artillery for harassment and interdiction in far greater quantities than Ukraine can.
One thing Ukraine does have working for them is Spetsnaz operations and partisan activities. Hopefully Ukraine can get trained up and ready to go so when spring comes they can do real damage that Russia simply doesn't expect.