(08-20-2022, 10:46 PM)Treefence Wrote: I believe there were little green men in Crimea, and lots of documentation to back that up. Yes, Russia had access to Sevastopol, but I think they wanted to portray the image of civil war, instead of occupation. Russian soldiers dressed in green uniforms without insignia, would pretend to be from Crimea. In this youtube series, you can see the Russian soldiers in green uniforms with no insignia. I highly recommend this youtube series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKsLlK52ss&t=6s
Probably it would require a definition of "little green men", but I think the very good series you linked to shows that the situation in Crimea in 2014 was fundamentally different that what evolved in Donetsk and Luhansk. The initial story line from the first video was as follows:
Quote:Not a shot has been fired so far, but Russia is using its superior force to intimidate Ukrainian troops in an effort to get them to surrender.
All of the Ukranian forces did surrender eventually. Nobody fought. They really had no choice. The narrating reporter pointed out the fact the troops (who were delivered in Russian military trucks) were Naval Infantry. While they had removed their national patches, everybody knew who they were and why they were there. All parties involved, both Ukranian and the reporters referred to "Russian troops" throughout the first three or four videos.They were present in overwhelming numbers and quickly sent military convoys led by a BMP to the Kherson Oblast. The reporters followed them there. The Black Sea Fleet blockaded the Ukranian Navy. They scuttled a ship across the harbor. Nobody in the world had any doubts that was Russia, not Ukrainian dissidents. While Putin may have wanted it to look like it was a "revolution", it was all over long before the referendum and everybody knew it. Russia was in control on day 1. A total of six people died in the entire operation.
The situation in the Donbas was totally different. There, Russia did not have a large military force already on the ground. While there was political agitation, the Russians were unable to capture either the Donetsk or Luhansk Oblasts on day 1. The Ukrainian forces resisted and were somewhat effective. A long struggle ensued. Russia sent in small numbers of what were called "little green men". Generally, nobody knew who they were. They were sometimes natives of the Donbas, but also often Wagner mercenaries or Chechens. Some of them were (allegedly) "retired" Russian officers. They were not a large force, often just a few men. In any case they didn't roll up in BMPs with truckload of Russian infantry in tow. Their purpose was to stimulate conflict between the natives of the Donbas and Ukraine. This went on for years, but from 2014 to 2015 over 6,000 people were killed in the Donbas. The Russians never succeeded in taking the Oblasts during that time.
For these reasons, I think it is clear the situations were radically different.
