[Goose]

The US and NATO are now to some degree being hoisted on their on petard. We claim immunity from Russian action while weapons are in transit via NATO countries. We also concede that Ukraine (and NATO) cannot attack on "Russian territory". We can't do anything to Iran that we wouldn't let Russia do to Poland. Really cuts down on our options.

One thing we can do is tell Russia that for any Iranian weapon they use that has a published range of X km, we will feel free to deliver weapons to Ukraine with equal range. Given that Iran claims the Shahed-136 has a published range of several hundred (actually thousand, but who cares?) km, ATACMS is now "like for like". They get Shahed-136s from Iran, Ukraine gets ATACMS from us.

Well, Russia is violating a UN Security Council resolution that it approved, but trying to enforce it might be a challenge.

Your proposed solution aligns with what I said earlier: continued use of long range drones from Iran to attack Ukranian civilian infrastructure is all the justification we need to give Ukraine ATACMS.

While I think we basically agree, my approach doesn't care about what Russia uses the drones to target. The fact they are hitting civilian infrastructure certainly outrages many people here. However, attacking only "military" targets shouldn't give them a pass. Like for like.

I also think we have to be a bit realistic in our outrage about Russian activities. Russia started a war of aggression. It is in no way a "just war" on their part. However, as we all know the US and the allies bombed civilian infrastructure in both Germany and Japan. Even in the first gulf war the US took out the entire Iraqi electrical grid (in one night). We considered that justified. It is clear that Russia is also targeting infrastructure (e.g. schools) that have no military value. These are not accidents, and are arguably war crimes. It is difficult to argue that blowing up railroad and power grid targets is in the same class. These targets enable Ukraine make war, as they did Germany in WW II. One can argue that any destruction caused by an "unjust war" is a war crime, but so far that hasn't ever been done to my knowledge.

we should also figure out where in Crimea the Iranian trainers/pilots are and make that the first target.

BC

Good plan!

[Goose]

The US and NATO are now to some degree being hoisted on their on petard. We claim immunity from Russian action while weapons are in transit via NATO countries. We also concede that Ukraine (and NATO) cannot attack on "Russian territory". We can't do anything to Iran that we wouldn't let Russia do to Poland. Really cuts down on our options.

One thing we can do is tell Russia that for any Iranian weapon they use that has a published range of X km, we will feel free to deliver weapons to Ukraine with equal range. Given that Iran claims the Shahed-136 has a published range of several hundred (actually thousand, but who cares?) km, ATACMS is now "like for like". They get Shahed-136s from Iran, Ukraine gets ATACMS from us.

Well, Russia is violating a UN Security Council resolution that it approved, but trying to enforce it might be a challenge.

Your proposed solution aligns with what I said earlier: continued use of long range drones from Iran to attack Ukranian civilian infrastructure is all the justification we need to give Ukraine ATACMS.

While I think we basically agree, my approach doesn't care about what Russia uses the drones to target. The fact they are hitting civilian infrastructure certainly outrages many people here. However, attacking only "military" targets shouldn't give them a pass. Like for like.

I also think we have to be a bit realistic in our outrage about Russian activities. Russia started a war of aggression. It is in no way a "just war" on their part. However, as we all know the US and the allies bombed civilian infrastructure in both Germany and Japan. Even in the first gulf war the US took out the entire Iraqi electrical grid (in one night). We considered that justified. It is clear that Russia is also targeting infrastructure (e.g. schools) that have no military value. These are not accidents, and are arguably war crimes. It is difficult to argue that blowing up railroad and power grid targets is in the same class. These targets enable Ukraine make war, as they did Germany in WW II. One can argue that any destruction caused by an "unjust war" is a war crime, but so far that hasn't ever been done to my knowledge.

we should also figure out where in Crimea the Iranian trainers/pilots are and make that the first target.

BC

Good plan!