[BobK]

Duh. lol thanks

[BobK]

Duh. lol thanks

[82lsju]

If they aren't already, I think Shaw and company need to start performing exit interviews with transferring seniors.  Find out what it is that they are looking for in the transfer portal and what we are not providing.  And if it is a fixable issue, then it needs to be fixed, but if it is a structural issue like "after four years at Stanford, I want a break from the academics and just want to go somewhere where I can play football and take easy classes" then there is not much we can do, and we should stop trying to preserve redshirts.


The graduate transfer rule and transfer portal has lowered the barrier to transfer.



BC

I know when I have had exit interviews from changing jobs I have seen no value in delving into any negative reason about why I'm leaving as there is unlikely to be any benefit to me in providing that feedback and some potential downside if I cross paths with people later who didn't like what I had to say about leaving.  Transferring colleges is probably lower risk in telling "the truth" but I wouldn't expect to get a lot of actionable info out of the interviews.

[82lsju]

If they aren't already, I think Shaw and company need to start performing exit interviews with transferring seniors.  Find out what it is that they are looking for in the transfer portal and what we are not providing.  And if it is a fixable issue, then it needs to be fixed, but if it is a structural issue like "after four years at Stanford, I want a break from the academics and just want to go somewhere where I can play football and take easy classes" then there is not much we can do, and we should stop trying to preserve redshirts.


The graduate transfer rule and transfer portal has lowered the barrier to transfer.



BC

I know when I have had exit interviews from changing jobs I have seen no value in delving into any negative reason about why I'm leaving as there is unlikely to be any benefit to me in providing that feedback and some potential downside if I cross paths with people later who didn't like what I had to say about leaving.  Transferring colleges is probably lower risk in telling "the truth" but I wouldn't expect to get a lot of actionable info out of the interviews.

[CTcard]

As far as grad transfers to Stanford the track team has 2 and baseball has 1.  So it’s possible for football

By the way, for baseball this is Jackson Parthasarathy. He was at Rice. He's actually already played in four seasons, but his frosh year he got hurt after a promising start in 6 appearances. I guess that was few enough games for an injury redshirt.
Last year he was Rice's third starter, going 4-8 with a 4.32 ERA for a 26-33 team.

[CTcard]

As far as grad transfers to Stanford the track team has 2 and baseball has 1.  So it’s possible for football

By the way, for baseball this is Jackson Parthasarathy. He was at Rice. He's actually already played in four seasons, but his frosh year he got hurt after a promising start in 6 appearances. I guess that was few enough games for an injury redshirt.
Last year he was Rice's third starter, going 4-8 with a 4.32 ERA for a 26-33 team.

[winflop]

One simple question I have – if they have the units to graduate, which they must to go into the portal, and want to move towards a masters do they have to get in to one of the Stanford graduate schools? 

Could this exitus to the portal be in part because some  haven’t gotten in but they may be able to elsewhere? I don’t know just asking. 

Everybody assumes it’s for some dissatisfaction with the program etc. But I suspect there are other possibilities. Hell maybe some of them don’t like Stanford. So yeah it’s a problem.

The  way I get over the problem is to make damn sure I stop redshirting freshman. Play them.  Having them raring to go for a 5th year somewhere else doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. And frankly while  Stanford occasionally gets the benefit – Scarlet being the best example- it’s not gonna happen very often because most are not gonna be able to get in.

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer.

---

If they aren't already, I think Shaw and company need to start performing exit interviews with transferring seniors.  Find out what it is that they are looking for in the transfer portal and what we are not providing.  And if it is a fixable issue, then it needs to be fixed, but if it is a structural issue like "after four years at Stanford, I want a break from the academics and just want to go somewhere where I can play football and take easy classes" then there is not much we can do, and we should stop trying to preserve redshirts.


The graduate transfer rule and transfer portal has lowered the barrier to transfer.



BC

I know when I have had exit interviews from changing jobs I have seen no value in delving into any negative reason about why I'm leaving as there is unlikely to be any benefit to me in providing that feedback and some potential downside if I cross paths with people later who didn't like what I had to say about leaving.  Transferring colleges is probably lower risk in telling "the truth" but I wouldn't expect to get a lot of actionable info out of the interviews.

Yep. I never tell a company why I'm leaving. If they cared about my opinion they would have asked while I was an employee who they thought was happy. I just say "I have a better opportunity" and leave it at that.

[winflop]

One simple question I have – if they have the units to graduate, which they must to go into the portal, and want to move towards a masters do they have to get in to one of the Stanford graduate schools? 

Could this exitus to the portal be in part because some  haven’t gotten in but they may be able to elsewhere? I don’t know just asking. 

Everybody assumes it’s for some dissatisfaction with the program etc. But I suspect there are other possibilities. Hell maybe some of them don’t like Stanford. So yeah it’s a problem.

The  way I get over the problem is to make damn sure I stop redshirting freshman. Play them.  Having them raring to go for a 5th year somewhere else doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. And frankly while  Stanford occasionally gets the benefit – Scarlet being the best example- it’s not gonna happen very often because most are not gonna be able to get in.

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer.

---

If they aren't already, I think Shaw and company need to start performing exit interviews with transferring seniors.  Find out what it is that they are looking for in the transfer portal and what we are not providing.  And if it is a fixable issue, then it needs to be fixed, but if it is a structural issue like "after four years at Stanford, I want a break from the academics and just want to go somewhere where I can play football and take easy classes" then there is not much we can do, and we should stop trying to preserve redshirts.


The graduate transfer rule and transfer portal has lowered the barrier to transfer.



BC

I know when I have had exit interviews from changing jobs I have seen no value in delving into any negative reason about why I'm leaving as there is unlikely to be any benefit to me in providing that feedback and some potential downside if I cross paths with people later who didn't like what I had to say about leaving.  Transferring colleges is probably lower risk in telling "the truth" but I wouldn't expect to get a lot of actionable info out of the interviews.

Yep. I never tell a company why I'm leaving. If they cared about my opinion they would have asked while I was an employee who they thought was happy. I just say "I have a better opportunity" and leave it at that.

[81alum]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer.

Exactly.

I don't know why everyone always assumes that if you have an extra year of athletic eligibility, that you can automatically stick around for an extra year.   

Even non-selective public universities often have a requirement of a 3.0 gpa to enter into any MA program.  Stanford's programs  will of course be more selective than that--some much much more selective--and involving a lot more than good grades.  A football player who had a few "C"s as an undergraduate might well not be admitted to any Stanford MA program.

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

[81alum]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer.

Exactly.

I don't know why everyone always assumes that if you have an extra year of athletic eligibility, that you can automatically stick around for an extra year.   

Even non-selective public universities often have a requirement of a 3.0 gpa to enter into any MA program.  Stanford's programs  will of course be more selective than that--some much much more selective--and involving a lot more than good grades.  A football player who had a few "C"s as an undergraduate might well not be admitted to any Stanford MA program.

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

[Goose]

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

I think this is the crux of it. While some guys may be content with just taking more undergraduate classes, others may really want a graduate degree. If you don't know you will be admitted, it is stupid not to have a "plan B". In some cases, the student may want an MBA or JD from a University in the area of the country they want to live. That may not be Northern California. Consider Terrence Alexander. Those guys are probably gone unless they don't get into their target school. It is certainly better to keep your options open as long as possible.

[Goose]

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

I think this is the crux of it. While some guys may be content with just taking more undergraduate classes, others may really want a graduate degree. If you don't know you will be admitted, it is stupid not to have a "plan B". In some cases, the student may want an MBA or JD from a University in the area of the country they want to live. That may not be Northern California. Consider Terrence Alexander. Those guys are probably gone unless they don't get into their target school. It is certainly better to keep your options open as long as possible.

[BostonCard]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer..

There’s no requirement that athletes graduate within four years of entering school.  There is nothing that says they can’t graduate in four years and a quarter.

BC

[BostonCard]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer..

There’s no requirement that athletes graduate within four years of entering school.  There is nothing that says they can’t graduate in four years and a quarter.

BC

[OutsiderFan]

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

I think this is the crux of it. While some guys may be content with just taking more undergraduate classes, others may really want a graduate degree. If you don't know you will be admitted, it is stupid not to have a "plan B". In some cases, the student may want an MBA or JD from a University in the area of the country they want to live. That may not be Northern California. Consider Terrence Alexander. Those guys are probably gone unless they don't get into their target school. It is certainly better to keep your options open as long as possible.

This line of thinking makes sense.  I have to wonder if the relaxed transfer and redshirt rules happened with so little warning, that Stanford was caught flat-footed.

Consider it wasn't too long ago that Stanford's smaller recruiting classes were seen as an advantage because there was little attrition and that meant ending up with more experienced, ostensibly bigger and stronger players on the field.  Now you throw in the grad transfer rule and new redshirt rules, and Stanford has a roster full of guys it recruited under one paradigm that are leaving earlier than expected which forced guys who weren't really expected to be playing to play faster, maybe when not ready.  It will take a few classes to balance the new paradigm out in terms of roster construction, player development, offensive and defensive schemes.

You always hear broadcasters say "This is a young roster, with 48 Freshmen and Sophomores."  Well, that's how it is going to be for most programs.  True Frosh are playing more because of the 4-game redshirt rule.  And with more guys having grad transfer options and leaving football early because of injury concerns or second NFL contract concerns, college rosters have gotten younger and younger across the board.

It all means the days of 12 or 14 signee classes are over for Stanford. That's probably a good thing because it will force more aggressive recruiting with more offers.

[OutsiderFan]

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

I think this is the crux of it. While some guys may be content with just taking more undergraduate classes, others may really want a graduate degree. If you don't know you will be admitted, it is stupid not to have a "plan B". In some cases, the student may want an MBA or JD from a University in the area of the country they want to live. That may not be Northern California. Consider Terrence Alexander. Those guys are probably gone unless they don't get into their target school. It is certainly better to keep your options open as long as possible.

This line of thinking makes sense.  I have to wonder if the relaxed transfer and redshirt rules happened with so little warning, that Stanford was caught flat-footed.

Consider it wasn't too long ago that Stanford's smaller recruiting classes were seen as an advantage because there was little attrition and that meant ending up with more experienced, ostensibly bigger and stronger players on the field.  Now you throw in the grad transfer rule and new redshirt rules, and Stanford has a roster full of guys it recruited under one paradigm that are leaving earlier than expected which forced guys who weren't really expected to be playing to play faster, maybe when not ready.  It will take a few classes to balance the new paradigm out in terms of roster construction, player development, offensive and defensive schemes.

You always hear broadcasters say "This is a young roster, with 48 Freshmen and Sophomores."  Well, that's how it is going to be for most programs.  True Frosh are playing more because of the 4-game redshirt rule.  And with more guys having grad transfer options and leaving football early because of injury concerns or second NFL contract concerns, college rosters have gotten younger and younger across the board.

It all means the days of 12 or 14 signee classes are over for Stanford. That's probably a good thing because it will force more aggressive recruiting with more offers.

[Austroturf]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer..

There’s no requirement that athletes graduate within four years of entering school.  There is nothing that says they can’t graduate in four years and a quarter.

BC

Exactly.  They don't need to be accepted into a master's program to keep playing.

[Austroturf]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer..

There’s no requirement that athletes graduate within four years of entering school.  There is nothing that says they can’t graduate in four years and a quarter.

BC

Exactly.  They don't need to be accepted into a master's program to keep playing.

[cardcrimson]

Even non-selective public universities often have a requirement of a 3.0 gpa to enter into any MA program.  Stanford's programs  will of course be more selective than that--some much much more selective--and involving a lot more than good grades.  A football player who had a few "C"s as an undergraduate might well not be admitted to any Stanford MA program.

Is there that much grade inflation nowadays or are things that much more competitive? A few Cs at one of the best universities eliminates you from a grad program? Sure glad I went to school decades ago. . . .

[cardcrimson]

Even non-selective public universities often have a requirement of a 3.0 gpa to enter into any MA program.  Stanford's programs  will of course be more selective than that--some much much more selective--and involving a lot more than good grades.  A football player who had a few "C"s as an undergraduate might well not be admitted to any Stanford MA program.

Is there that much grade inflation nowadays or are things that much more competitive? A few Cs at one of the best universities eliminates you from a grad program? Sure glad I went to school decades ago. . . .

[OutsiderFan]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer..

There’s no requirement that athletes graduate within four years of entering school.  There is nothing that says they can’t graduate in four years and a quarter.

BC

Exactly.  They don't need to be accepted into a master's program to keep playing.

But doesn't the NCAA put pressure on schools to make athletes progress toward graduation quickly, with APR scores?

[OutsiderFan]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer..

There’s no requirement that athletes graduate within four years of entering school.  There is nothing that says they can’t graduate in four years and a quarter.

BC

Exactly.  They don't need to be accepted into a master's program to keep playing.

But doesn't the NCAA put pressure on schools to make athletes progress toward graduation quickly, with APR scores?

[TinderForMidgets]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer.

Exactly.

I don't know why everyone always assumes that if you have an extra year of athletic eligibility, that you can automatically stick around for an extra year.   

Even non-selective public universities often have a requirement of a 3.0 gpa to enter into any MA program.  Stanford's programs  will of course be more selective than that--some much much more selective--and involving a lot more than good grades.  A football player who had a few "C"s as an undergraduate might well not be admitted to any Stanford MA program.

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

I know a football player, Rollins Stallworth who had a 3.12 GPA (his GPA is listed here https://pac-12.com/article/2015/11/24/pa...-announced) and still got into the communications co-term. I don't think grad admissions was a factor as there are still co-terms that have low admissions requirements like communications. Jovan Swann has at least a 3.0 since he made the honorable mention in the pac-12 all academic team.

[TinderForMidgets]

It is a very real possibility that they were not admitted to graduate school at Stanford, which means that the only way they play next season is to grad transfer.

Exactly.

I don't know why everyone always assumes that if you have an extra year of athletic eligibility, that you can automatically stick around for an extra year.   

Even non-selective public universities often have a requirement of a 3.0 gpa to enter into any MA program.  Stanford's programs  will of course be more selective than that--some much much more selective--and involving a lot more than good grades.  A football player who had a few "C"s as an undergraduate might well not be admitted to any Stanford MA program.

And while we are talking about this, most graduate programs make their admissions decisions in April.  I know there are early decisions for undergraduate admissions for athletes, but is there any such thing for graduate programs?  Wouldn't a prudent student-athlete want to keep all the options open until they know where they are admitted for graduate school?

I know a football player, Rollins Stallworth who had a 3.12 GPA (his GPA is listed here https://pac-12.com/article/2015/11/24/pa...-announced) and still got into the communications co-term. I don't think grad admissions was a factor as there are still co-terms that have low admissions requirements like communications. Jovan Swann has at least a 3.0 since he made the honorable mention in the pac-12 all academic team.

[BostonCard]

But doesn't the NCAA put pressure on schools to make athletes progress toward graduation quickly, with APR scores?

Yes, but NCAA grad requirements are notoriously lax, and they call consider someone to have graduated if they graduated within 6 years of enrollment.

The student-athlete graduation rate calculated directly based on IPEDS-GRS (which is the methodology the U.S. Department of Education requires) is the proportion of first-year, full-time student-athletes who entered a school on athletics aid and graduated from that institution within six years. This federal rate does not account for students who transfer from their original institution and graduate elsewhere; they are considered non-graduates at both the college they left and the one from which they eventually graduate.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/rese...tion-rates

APR is even more lax:

Each student-athlete receiving athletically related financial aid earns one point for staying in school and one point for being academically eligible

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/rese...-explained

NCAA academic eligibility is a joke.

BC

[BostonCard]

But doesn't the NCAA put pressure on schools to make athletes progress toward graduation quickly, with APR scores?

Yes, but NCAA grad requirements are notoriously lax, and they call consider someone to have graduated if they graduated within 6 years of enrollment.

The student-athlete graduation rate calculated directly based on IPEDS-GRS (which is the methodology the U.S. Department of Education requires) is the proportion of first-year, full-time student-athletes who entered a school on athletics aid and graduated from that institution within six years. This federal rate does not account for students who transfer from their original institution and graduate elsewhere; they are considered non-graduates at both the college they left and the one from which they eventually graduate.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/rese...tion-rates

APR is even more lax:

Each student-athlete receiving athletically related financial aid earns one point for staying in school and one point for being academically eligible

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/rese...-explained

NCAA academic eligibility is a joke.

BC