[2006alum]

Friendly reminder that nasal congestion and sneezing are not standard COVID-19 symptoms, so the good news is that seasonal allergies are unlikely to mask more serious symptomatic concerns. Fever and dry cough are the main symptoms to watch for. I don't know the science behind this, but I read that Allegra may be useful for it moreso than other antihistamine type drugs.

[2006alum]

Friendly reminder that nasal congestion and sneezing are not standard COVID-19 symptoms, so the good news is that seasonal allergies are unlikely to mask more serious symptomatic concerns. Fever and dry cough are the main symptoms to watch for. I don't know the science behind this, but I read that Allegra may be useful for it moreso than other antihistamine type drugs.

[Mick]

Norway joins Italy in shutting everything down: https://theweek.com/speedreads/901770/en...tting-down

In addition to kindergartens, child care facilities, schools, and universities closing nationwide, and a ban on both professional and amateur sports — measures that have been taken only regionally so far in the U.S. — the entire country of Norway is also requiring all hairdressers, massage clinics, gyms, and tattoo parlors to close, Life in Norway and Swedish journalist Peter Imanuelsen report based off the announcement on NRK. Cultural events are also banned, with museums, pools, and libraries additionally closing. While grocery stores will remain open, restaurants, bars, pubs, and nightclubs are required to close if they can't guarantee a three-foot distance between patrons. Buffets, naturally, are banned.

Other countries are doing the same.  This has to happen here, too, unless we're okay with millions dying.

Millions may die anyway if we shut everything down.

[Mick]

Norway joins Italy in shutting everything down: https://theweek.com/speedreads/901770/en...tting-down

In addition to kindergartens, child care facilities, schools, and universities closing nationwide, and a ban on both professional and amateur sports — measures that have been taken only regionally so far in the U.S. — the entire country of Norway is also requiring all hairdressers, massage clinics, gyms, and tattoo parlors to close, Life in Norway and Swedish journalist Peter Imanuelsen report based off the announcement on NRK. Cultural events are also banned, with museums, pools, and libraries additionally closing. While grocery stores will remain open, restaurants, bars, pubs, and nightclubs are required to close if they can't guarantee a three-foot distance between patrons. Buffets, naturally, are banned.

Other countries are doing the same.  This has to happen here, too, unless we're okay with millions dying.

Millions may die anyway if we shut everything down.

[burger]

Friendly reminder that nasal congestion and sneezing are not standard COVID-19 symptoms, so the good news is that seasonal allergies are unlikely to mask more serious symptomatic concerns. Fever and dry cough are the main symptoms to watch for. I don't know the science behind this, but I read that Allegra may be useful for it moreso than other antihistamine type drugs.

I was in an OB/GYN waiting room today, and a woman waiting was sneezing and sniffling non-stop.  After a few minutes of this, she turned to the room and loudly said "it's just allergies," which prompted a lot of relieved laughter.

I already knew that sneezing isn't a covid symptom, but this is useful to point out, as it's not common knowledge.

[burger]

Friendly reminder that nasal congestion and sneezing are not standard COVID-19 symptoms, so the good news is that seasonal allergies are unlikely to mask more serious symptomatic concerns. Fever and dry cough are the main symptoms to watch for. I don't know the science behind this, but I read that Allegra may be useful for it moreso than other antihistamine type drugs.

I was in an OB/GYN waiting room today, and a woman waiting was sneezing and sniffling non-stop.  After a few minutes of this, she turned to the room and loudly said "it's just allergies," which prompted a lot of relieved laughter.

I already knew that sneezing isn't a covid symptom, but this is useful to point out, as it's not common knowledge.

[ChicagoCard]

Besides common allergies what about allergic rhinitis where congestion or the original virus can lead to post virus infections? I understand apparently coronavirus doesn't cause significant congestion. Would it be a good idea to take extra proactive steps such as taking a prescribed nasal steroid as long as the threat of coronavirus is present? I hope this is appropriate here.

[ChicagoCard]

Besides common allergies what about allergic rhinitis where congestion or the original virus can lead to post virus infections? I understand apparently coronavirus doesn't cause significant congestion. Would it be a good idea to take extra proactive steps such as taking a prescribed nasal steroid as long as the threat of coronavirus is present? I hope this is appropriate here.

[JustAnotherFan]

Dr. Amy Acton, Director of the Ohio Dept of Health: “the fact of community spread says at least 1% of the population is carrying the virus. We have 11.7 million people. The math is over 100,000.” … “This might peak in late April to mid-May.”

Also, Ohio schools will be closed from COB on Monday until at least to April 3rd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1CF6zp4QPI

Minute 30.

[JustAnotherFan]

Dr. Amy Acton, Director of the Ohio Dept of Health: “the fact of community spread says at least 1% of the population is carrying the virus. We have 11.7 million people. The math is over 100,000.” … “This might peak in late April to mid-May.”

Also, Ohio schools will be closed from COB on Monday until at least to April 3rd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1CF6zp4QPI

Minute 30.

[BostonCard]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

[BostonCard]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

[OutsiderFan]

Really impressed by Ohio’s Governor. He acted fast and decisively across the whole state with just a few cases.

I think the U.S. has well over 10,000 infected and probably close to over 100,000. Absent ANY testing we all have to do everything possible to avoid other people. If we don’t basically all shelter in place ASAP, we will suffer worse than Italy.

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

[OutsiderFan]

Really impressed by Ohio’s Governor. He acted fast and decisively across the whole state with just a few cases.

I think the U.S. has well over 10,000 infected and probably close to over 100,000. Absent ANY testing we all have to do everything possible to avoid other people. If we don’t basically all shelter in place ASAP, we will suffer worse than Italy.

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

[BostonCard]

Justin Trudeau’s wife tested positive.

BC

[BostonCard]

Justin Trudeau’s wife tested positive.

BC

[cardcrimson]

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

Quite true. China has things in much better control than the US. Just ask the Uyghurs. 

Please stop with the propaganda and focus on resolution.

[cardcrimson]

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

Quite true. China has things in much better control than the US. Just ask the Uyghurs. 

Please stop with the propaganda and focus on resolution.

[akiddoc]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

Discussion in the article regarding overworked doctors and nurses. That's never a good idea. I just worked 23 out of 25 days (10 hour days). Just got home actually. My boss at the urgent care job just texted all of the MD's and said we would be required to work extra shifts. I said no. She said I had no choice. I said fire me then. That shut her up.

[akiddoc]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

Discussion in the article regarding overworked doctors and nurses. That's never a good idea. I just worked 23 out of 25 days (10 hour days). Just got home actually. My boss at the urgent care job just texted all of the MD's and said we would be required to work extra shifts. I said no. She said I had no choice. I said fire me then. That shut her up.

[cardcrimson]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

Discussion in the article regarding overworked doctors and nurses. That's never a good idea. I just worked 23 out of 25 days (10 hour days). Just got home actually. My boss at the urgent care job just texted all of the MD's and said we would be required to work extra shifts. I said no. She said I had no choice. I said fire me then. That shut her up.

Thanks for being on the front lines. Stay healthy!

[cardcrimson]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

Discussion in the article regarding overworked doctors and nurses. That's never a good idea. I just worked 23 out of 25 days (10 hour days). Just got home actually. My boss at the urgent care job just texted all of the MD's and said we would be required to work extra shifts. I said no. She said I had no choice. I said fire me then. That shut her up.

Thanks for being on the front lines. Stay healthy!

[Snorlax94]

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

Quite true. China has things in much better control than the US. Just ask the Uyghurs. 

Please stop with the propaganda and focus on resolution.

It’s not propaganda. I missed it but I was curious to watch

It is not propaganda to want to hear what other countries are doing better than the US. Should we not institute drive-thru testing because we were too proud because it was first done in Korea?

People are not paying enough attention to the fact that this is a global problem. After the US gets over this period, and the virus continues to rage across the world, the US, China and Europe will just get re-infected over and over again. The US cannot and should not be thinking about how to protect only itself, protecting America will require assisting and partnering with other countries — including learning best practices from even China. And that is focusing on the resolution.

[Snorlax94]

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

Quite true. China has things in much better control than the US. Just ask the Uyghurs. 

Please stop with the propaganda and focus on resolution.

It’s not propaganda. I missed it but I was curious to watch

It is not propaganda to want to hear what other countries are doing better than the US. Should we not institute drive-thru testing because we were too proud because it was first done in Korea?

People are not paying enough attention to the fact that this is a global problem. After the US gets over this period, and the virus continues to rage across the world, the US, China and Europe will just get re-infected over and over again. The US cannot and should not be thinking about how to protect only itself, protecting America will require assisting and partnering with other countries — including learning best practices from even China. And that is focusing on the resolution.

[burger]

Really impressed by Ohio’s Governor. He acted fast and decisively across the whole state with just a few cases.

I think the U.S. has well over 10,000 infected and probably close to over 100,000. Absent ANY testing we all have to do everything possible to avoid other people. If we don’t basically all shelter in place ASAP, we will suffer worse than Italy.

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

This virus scientist thinks that Mike de Wine is full of shit on having "100,000" cases in Ohio: https://mobile.twitter.com/trvrb/status/...5178887169

Making up numbers doesn't help anyone.

[burger]

Really impressed by Ohio’s Governor. He acted fast and decisively across the whole state with just a few cases.

I think the U.S. has well over 10,000 infected and probably close to over 100,000. Absent ANY testing we all have to do everything possible to avoid other people. If we don’t basically all shelter in place ASAP, we will suffer worse than Italy.

I suggest everyone watch Rachel Maddow’s interview with NYT reporter tonight. It’s shocking how ill-prepared the U.S. is compared to China. I’ll use it as evidence to support my above claim.

This virus scientist thinks that Mike de Wine is full of shit on having "100,000" cases in Ohio: https://mobile.twitter.com/trvrb/status/...5178887169

Making up numbers doesn't help anyone.

[2006alum]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

Discussion in the article regarding overworked doctors and nurses. That's never a good idea. I just worked 23 out of 25 days (10 hour days). Just got home actually. My boss at the urgent care job just texted all of the MD's and said we would be required to work extra shifts. I said no. She said I had no choice. I said fire me then. That shut her up.

akiddoc, now and in the days and weeks ahead, thank you for your service. I'm sure you're already fatigued with the worst yet to come. I truly wish there were more we as civilians could do to support you, apart from social distancing and taking proper precautions.

Does anyone know of civil society organizations that provide care or relief kits or any other kind of moral support for physicians and nurses? I have a feeling they could use a lot of support over the weeks to ahead....

[2006alum]

The situation in Italy is dire.

https://apple.news/AYcAfS-mOQv6T98GUcRM1Ug

BC

Discussion in the article regarding overworked doctors and nurses. That's never a good idea. I just worked 23 out of 25 days (10 hour days). Just got home actually. My boss at the urgent care job just texted all of the MD's and said we would be required to work extra shifts. I said no. She said I had no choice. I said fire me then. That shut her up.

akiddoc, now and in the days and weeks ahead, thank you for your service. I'm sure you're already fatigued with the worst yet to come. I truly wish there were more we as civilians could do to support you, apart from social distancing and taking proper precautions.

Does anyone know of civil society organizations that provide care or relief kits or any other kind of moral support for physicians and nurses? I have a feeling they could use a lot of support over the weeks to ahead....

[BostonCard]

I’ve mentioned before in this thread and I will mention it again.  The entirety of the Chinese response has to be considered, not just what happened late January when the scale of the pandemic became apparent.  Remember, 5 million people left Hubei province before they quarantined it. 

BC

[BostonCard]

I’ve mentioned before in this thread and I will mention it again.  The entirety of the Chinese response has to be considered, not just what happened late January when the scale of the pandemic became apparent.  Remember, 5 million people left Hubei province before they quarantined it. 

BC

[Goose]

The facts are that we don't know what is going to happen. We don't know how many people are already infected and not yet "sick". There are models, but these models are not validated. They may match conditions that do not exist in a given situation. That is why we must overreact and assume the worst. If it is not that bad, great. The larger error is to assert we know what is going to happen, because we don't. All models are wrong, some models are useful. We don't yet know which ones.

[Goose]

The facts are that we don't know what is going to happen. We don't know how many people are already infected and not yet "sick". There are models, but these models are not validated. They may match conditions that do not exist in a given situation. That is why we must overreact and assume the worst. If it is not that bad, great. The larger error is to assert we know what is going to happen, because we don't. All models are wrong, some models are useful. We don't yet know which ones.

[M T]

Earlier, we discussed things we were doing because of COVID-19.  I would like to suggest something NOT to do.

DON'T VACUUM or sweep areas that may have been exposed to an infected person.  Don't shake out rugs either.

My understanding is that the droplets with the virus will eventually fall to the floor.  There, they are relatively unlikely to be a hazard to adults.

COROLLARY:  Be diligent in not allowing children to play on the floor in public places during an epidemic.

If you vacuum a floor, any virus particles will be sucked up and either filtered or blown back out into the air.  If they go back into the air, the vacuumer and any other people around again get a chance to inhale the virus particles into their nasal passages or lungs.   They may also fall onto surface that you had previously cleaned.

Can the virus particles be filtered out?
There are vacuum cleaners that use HEPA filters.  Are these good enough to filter out the coronavirus?  I wouldn't bet my life on it.
HEPA filters are specified to filter out a high percentage of particles of size 0.3 micron.  Coronavirus is about 1/3 that size (0.1 micron).

There may be HEPA filters specified to a higher standard, but don't just depend on the HEPA classification.

Using a rug shampooer or mopping a hard surface with a detergent or disinfectant would be a better option if you need to clean it.

(You may want to advise your workplace to take this into consideration for the janitorial staff.)

By the way, N95 masks are also specified to filter out a high percentage of 0.3 micron particles.

[M T]

Earlier, we discussed things we were doing because of COVID-19.  I would like to suggest something NOT to do.

DON'T VACUUM or sweep areas that may have been exposed to an infected person.  Don't shake out rugs either.

My understanding is that the droplets with the virus will eventually fall to the floor.  There, they are relatively unlikely to be a hazard to adults.

COROLLARY:  Be diligent in not allowing children to play on the floor in public places during an epidemic.

If you vacuum a floor, any virus particles will be sucked up and either filtered or blown back out into the air.  If they go back into the air, the vacuumer and any other people around again get a chance to inhale the virus particles into their nasal passages or lungs.   They may also fall onto surface that you had previously cleaned.

Can the virus particles be filtered out?
There are vacuum cleaners that use HEPA filters.  Are these good enough to filter out the coronavirus?  I wouldn't bet my life on it.
HEPA filters are specified to filter out a high percentage of particles of size 0.3 micron.  Coronavirus is about 1/3 that size (0.1 micron).

There may be HEPA filters specified to a higher standard, but don't just depend on the HEPA classification.

Using a rug shampooer or mopping a hard surface with a detergent or disinfectant would be a better option if you need to clean it.

(You may want to advise your workplace to take this into consideration for the janitorial staff.)

By the way, N95 masks are also specified to filter out a high percentage of 0.3 micron particles.

[fullmetal]

I've been sifting through the covid-19 news on Twitter lately, and it seems this Cardboard thread has everything about covered.  I bet the Disneyland closure was more motivated by the projected drop in near-term attendance and the bottom-line impact...

I am certain the number of Wuhan deaths were and have been permanently underreported as there was a policy to immediately cremate the dead without testing for covid-19.  It was always the local officials who had attempted the cover-up while initially slow-rolling their public health reaction.  The Hubei quarantines were enacted with better knowledge of the disease than was officially reported.  There is still a lot of face-saving going on between the WHO and China, as the WHO continues to sidestep pointed questions about the reliability of Chinese figures and the blame game.

I learned today that a friend's coworker passed away in Seattle on Jan. 2nd from pneumonia/cardiac event.  I am deeply suspicious that this was covid-related, though no testing was done at the time (heart attack secondary to covid infection is common).  I would not be surprised if the disease had been circulating in the Seattle population prior to the first confirmed Jan. 17th event documented.

A lot of people in financially precarious situations will be hurt by the social isolation required to delay the covid spread.  We need a tangible way to support this population, and it is not a small population :(

The deliberate delays in testing (by policy) and initial attempts to misrepresent the number of infections are abhorrent, malicious, and should be criminal.  Not only are these figures lagging indicators, but the delayed public health response will cost lives.  That is apparently nothing new for this leadership, however.

I didn't see this mentioned earlier, so here's a new bon mot: the University of Washington is asking qualified UW graduate students to volunteer (and potentially re-task) to staff up their covid-19 clinical laboratory efforts (sample processing and work-up).  Compensation tbd but the administration is working on it.  The Gates Foundation and Amazon are looking to deploy covid-19 home sample collection kits in the Seattle area (to be tested by UW?).  The UW virology lab is going through 900 samples a day, and they want to get up to 5k samples per day, iirc.

These are laudable actions and show good leadership in a situation where the federal agency responsible has dropped the ball, but it's only a private sector ray of hope for Seattle in a time where national commitment and leadership should have been on display.

Oh, and the virus apparently doesn't like sustained exposure to sunlight (UV?) or lots of heat...so there's that.

[fullmetal]

I've been sifting through the covid-19 news on Twitter lately, and it seems this Cardboard thread has everything about covered.  I bet the Disneyland closure was more motivated by the projected drop in near-term attendance and the bottom-line impact...

I am certain the number of Wuhan deaths were and have been permanently underreported as there was a policy to immediately cremate the dead without testing for covid-19.  It was always the local officials who had attempted the cover-up while initially slow-rolling their public health reaction.  The Hubei quarantines were enacted with better knowledge of the disease than was officially reported.  There is still a lot of face-saving going on between the WHO and China, as the WHO continues to sidestep pointed questions about the reliability of Chinese figures and the blame game.

I learned today that a friend's coworker passed away in Seattle on Jan. 2nd from pneumonia/cardiac event.  I am deeply suspicious that this was covid-related, though no testing was done at the time (heart attack secondary to covid infection is common).  I would not be surprised if the disease had been circulating in the Seattle population prior to the first confirmed Jan. 17th event documented.

A lot of people in financially precarious situations will be hurt by the social isolation required to delay the covid spread.  We need a tangible way to support this population, and it is not a small population :(

The deliberate delays in testing (by policy) and initial attempts to misrepresent the number of infections are abhorrent, malicious, and should be criminal.  Not only are these figures lagging indicators, but the delayed public health response will cost lives.  That is apparently nothing new for this leadership, however.

I didn't see this mentioned earlier, so here's a new bon mot: the University of Washington is asking qualified UW graduate students to volunteer (and potentially re-task) to staff up their covid-19 clinical laboratory efforts (sample processing and work-up).  Compensation tbd but the administration is working on it.  The Gates Foundation and Amazon are looking to deploy covid-19 home sample collection kits in the Seattle area (to be tested by UW?).  The UW virology lab is going through 900 samples a day, and they want to get up to 5k samples per day, iirc.

These are laudable actions and show good leadership in a situation where the federal agency responsible has dropped the ball, but it's only a private sector ray of hope for Seattle in a time where national commitment and leadership should have been on display.

Oh, and the virus apparently doesn't like sustained exposure to sunlight (UV?) or lots of heat...so there's that.

[BostonCard]

Jan 2 would be awfully soon for it to have been in the US and caused a death, though I suppose it is always possible that it was circulating in Wuhan some time before it was discovered. Still it should be possible to (eventually) work backwards and determine whether the virus has been present for longer and at higher levels.  But based on what we know, it’s already substantially undercounted in the area. If you add two weeks of circulation to it, you are talking about two further doubling a and then you’re talking about hundreds of thousands of Seattleits being infected.  Possible, but I’m skeptical.

BC

[BostonCard]

Jan 2 would be awfully soon for it to have been in the US and caused a death, though I suppose it is always possible that it was circulating in Wuhan some time before it was discovered. Still it should be possible to (eventually) work backwards and determine whether the virus has been present for longer and at higher levels.  But based on what we know, it’s already substantially undercounted in the area. If you add two weeks of circulation to it, you are talking about two further doubling a and then you’re talking about hundreds of thousands of Seattleits being infected.  Possible, but I’m skeptical.

BC

[M T]

Does anyone know of civil society organizations that provide care or relief kits or any other kind of moral support for physicians and nurses? I have a feeling they could use a lot of support over the weeks to ahead....

Google "Honor Your Doctor" and your local medical organization.
For Palo Alto Medical Foundation (Sutter Health), see
  https://www.sutterhealth.org/pamf/ways-t...ilanthropy

March 30 is National Doctor's Day. 

My only issue with this is that there are many more staff on the front line than the doctors.  When I recently had pneumonia, most of my day-to-day care was provided by nurses, techs that gave me breathing treatments, x-ray techs, and the room cleaning staff.  I'm sure the doctors were overseeing that care, but they're not the only ones providing the care.

[M T]

Does anyone know of civil society organizations that provide care or relief kits or any other kind of moral support for physicians and nurses? I have a feeling they could use a lot of support over the weeks to ahead....

Google "Honor Your Doctor" and your local medical organization.
For Palo Alto Medical Foundation (Sutter Health), see
  https://www.sutterhealth.org/pamf/ways-t...ilanthropy

March 30 is National Doctor's Day. 

My only issue with this is that there are many more staff on the front line than the doctors.  When I recently had pneumonia, most of my day-to-day care was provided by nurses, techs that gave me breathing treatments, x-ray techs, and the room cleaning staff.  I'm sure the doctors were overseeing that care, but they're not the only ones providing the care.