07-02-2021, 05:29 PM
Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread
07-02-2021, 05:41 PM
(07-02-2021, 05:37 PM)BobK Wrote: Belt takes strike three. But he thought it was off. Goodness
Belt could really benefit from a computerized strike zone.
He has been correct on those takes far more than the umpires have been . . . at least this season.
Regardless, he is still the best the Giants have at 1B and better than most in recent memory.
(07-02-2021, 05:37 PM)BobK Wrote: Belt takes strike three. But he thought it was off. Goodness
Belt could really benefit from a computerized strike zone.
He has been correct on those takes far more than the umpires have been . . . at least this season.
Regardless, he is still the best the Giants have at 1B and better than most in recent memory.
07-02-2021, 06:09 PM
Except the umps call the strikes. Be aggressive don’t wait to be called out.
07-03-2021, 06:02 AM
Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
07-03-2021, 07:30 AM
(07-03-2021, 06:02 AM)Phogge Wrote: Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
Belt is and always has been a good player. Not great. A better than average first baseman. Yeah he takes too many called thirds. But overall he is a big plus. Stat I generally look at for him is slugging percentage. .512 this year.
(07-03-2021, 06:02 AM)Phogge Wrote: Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
Belt is and always has been a good player. Not great. A better than average first baseman. Yeah he takes too many called thirds. But overall he is a big plus. Stat I generally look at for him is slugging percentage. .512 this year.
(07-02-2021, 10:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: The only thing that may save him, is a shortage of RH bats. But Giants can go with Estrada at third, Flores at first, Ruf in left, Yaz in center and Davis in right against lefties. (Admittedly that sounds frightening defensively)
If Slater does get a couple starts here pre-break, he has to produce. He is, I think on very thin ice.
Agreed. Wish it weren't so, but Slater looks lost at bat.
Estrada went 3 for 5 with five RBI, a double and an HR. Pretty good start. And there was all kinds of good news last night. Jaylin Davis, 1 for 1 as H. Crawford, 3 hits. Yaz 2 for 5, Wade 2 for 3 with a walk. Wood is now 7-3.
(07-03-2021, 07:30 AM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 06:02 AM)Phogge Wrote: Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
Belt is and always has been a good player. Not great. A better than average first baseman. Yeah he takes too many called thirds. But overall he is a big plus. Stat I generally look at for him is slugging percentage. .512 this year.
Agreed, I really like Belt. Belt was #15 in OPS among MLB first basemen in 2019, but leapt to #2 in 2020. He's #6 among first basemen in OPS this year.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(07-02-2021, 10:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: The only thing that may save him, is a shortage of RH bats. But Giants can go with Estrada at third, Flores at first, Ruf in left, Yaz in center and Davis in right against lefties. (Admittedly that sounds frightening defensively)
If Slater does get a couple starts here pre-break, he has to produce. He is, I think on very thin ice.
Agreed. Wish it weren't so, but Slater looks lost at bat.
Estrada went 3 for 5 with five RBI, a double and an HR. Pretty good start. And there was all kinds of good news last night. Jaylin Davis, 1 for 1 as H. Crawford, 3 hits. Yaz 2 for 5, Wade 2 for 3 with a walk. Wood is now 7-3.
(07-03-2021, 07:30 AM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 06:02 AM)Phogge Wrote: Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
Belt is and always has been a good player. Not great. A better than average first baseman. Yeah he takes too many called thirds. But overall he is a big plus. Stat I generally look at for him is slugging percentage. .512 this year.
Agreed, I really like Belt. Belt was #15 in OPS among MLB first basemen in 2019, but leapt to #2 in 2020. He's #6 among first basemen in OPS this year.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
07-03-2021, 10:28 AM
(07-03-2021, 08:07 AM)Mick Wrote:(07-02-2021, 10:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: The only thing that may save him, is a shortage of RH bats. But Giants can go with Estrada at third, Flores at first, Ruf in left, Yaz in center and Davis in right against lefties. (Admittedly that sounds frightening defensively)
If Slater does get a couple starts here pre-break, he has to produce. He is, I think on very thin ice.
Agreed. Wish it weren't so, but Slater looks lost at bat.
Estrada went 3 for 5 with five RBI, a double and an HR. Pretty good start. And there was all kinds of good news last night. Jaylin Davis, 1 for 1 as H. Crawford, 3 hits. Yaz 2 for 5, Wade 2 for 3 with a walk. Wood is now 7-3.
(07-03-2021, 07:30 AM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 06:02 AM)Phogge Wrote: Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
Belt is and always has been a good player. Not great. A better than average first baseman. Yeah he takes too many called thirds. But overall he is a big plus. Stat I generally look at for him is slugging percentage. .512 this year.
Agreed, I really like Belt. Belt was #15 in OPS among MLB first basemen in 2019, but leapt to #2 in 2020. He's #6 among first basemen in OPS this year.
Davis hit a pop up that was misplayed. But he made contact. Which has been his issue. He’s the guy that may push Slater out.
(07-03-2021, 08:07 AM)Mick Wrote:(07-02-2021, 10:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: The only thing that may save him, is a shortage of RH bats. But Giants can go with Estrada at third, Flores at first, Ruf in left, Yaz in center and Davis in right against lefties. (Admittedly that sounds frightening defensively)
If Slater does get a couple starts here pre-break, he has to produce. He is, I think on very thin ice.
Agreed. Wish it weren't so, but Slater looks lost at bat.
Estrada went 3 for 5 with five RBI, a double and an HR. Pretty good start. And there was all kinds of good news last night. Jaylin Davis, 1 for 1 as H. Crawford, 3 hits. Yaz 2 for 5, Wade 2 for 3 with a walk. Wood is now 7-3.
(07-03-2021, 07:30 AM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 06:02 AM)Phogge Wrote: Maybe they can squeeze a few walks from Belt if he returns. Old news along with Slater. The talent is beginning to turn over.
Belt is and always has been a good player. Not great. A better than average first baseman. Yeah he takes too many called thirds. But overall he is a big plus. Stat I generally look at for him is slugging percentage. .512 this year.
Agreed, I really like Belt. Belt was #15 in OPS among MLB first basemen in 2019, but leapt to #2 in 2020. He's #6 among first basemen in OPS this year.
Davis hit a pop up that was misplayed. But he made contact. Which has been his issue. He’s the guy that may push Slater out.
07-03-2021, 10:30 AM
Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman. He would be more productive if he was more aggressive. I like aggression.
07-03-2021, 11:54 AM
(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
(07-03-2021, 11:54 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
What will Belt bring on the market? Health is a big issue, given he’s reinjured a knee that reduced his effectiveness for over a year. So the Giants probably can sign him fairly cheaply. But of course they’ll also have concerns about his health.
Freeman would be the one guy out of the group of free agents that I go after hard. But I’ve read that he’s not likely to leave Atlanta. And the Giants have luxury liners full of money to spend next year. If they don’t shame on them. Obviously they need to do it wisely. But I trust Farhan to do that.
Phogge, you know I am not a fan of the style of play in today’s game. But the bottom line is the get deep into the count approach the Giants are taking has been very effective. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the only NL teams ahead of the Giants on things like walks and number of pitches seen are the Dodgers and the Padres.
What I don’t understand is why so many pitchers seem to try to nibble early in counts with nobody on base. Watching the Giants pitch to Max Muncy drove me nuts. He leads the league in walks. And he almost never swings at a pitch outside the strike zone. So what do the Giants do - essentially they come out with offspeed stuff just outside the zone which he spits on, fall behind then groove a fastball and he puts it in the stands. Or otherwise he walks. He’s more comfortable at the plate than I am sitting in my lazy boy with a beer in my hand. It’s absurd. Does anybody pitch inside with a purpose anymore? I’m not talking about throwing at a guys head but I am talking about backing a guy off the plate. And if you hit him in the ribs - oh well.
If I were putting a game plan against the Giants as a pitching coach it would be attack the zone early don’t nibble. If they hit an occasional solo home run so be it. But you’re not gonna walk people. Because without walks they’re not gonna beat you. Obviously with men on base you have to be a little more careful. But until then - just attack attack attack.
I have the same plan against the Dodgers. Of course the problem is they can beat you with solo home runs because their pitching is so damn good. But they absolutely thrive on walks.
Pitchers today have more “stuff” then at any time. But half of them are afraid to throw the damn thing in the strike zone. Particularly a fastball. I understand trying to get hitters to chase when ahead in the count. But against teams like the Dodgers, trying to get them to chase early in counts is futile. Because they won’t do it. Then they got you right where they want you.
(07-03-2021, 11:54 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
What will Belt bring on the market? Health is a big issue, given he’s reinjured a knee that reduced his effectiveness for over a year. So the Giants probably can sign him fairly cheaply. But of course they’ll also have concerns about his health.
Freeman would be the one guy out of the group of free agents that I go after hard. But I’ve read that he’s not likely to leave Atlanta. And the Giants have luxury liners full of money to spend next year. If they don’t shame on them. Obviously they need to do it wisely. But I trust Farhan to do that.
Phogge, you know I am not a fan of the style of play in today’s game. But the bottom line is the get deep into the count approach the Giants are taking has been very effective. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the only NL teams ahead of the Giants on things like walks and number of pitches seen are the Dodgers and the Padres.
What I don’t understand is why so many pitchers seem to try to nibble early in counts with nobody on base. Watching the Giants pitch to Max Muncy drove me nuts. He leads the league in walks. And he almost never swings at a pitch outside the strike zone. So what do the Giants do - essentially they come out with offspeed stuff just outside the zone which he spits on, fall behind then groove a fastball and he puts it in the stands. Or otherwise he walks. He’s more comfortable at the plate than I am sitting in my lazy boy with a beer in my hand. It’s absurd. Does anybody pitch inside with a purpose anymore? I’m not talking about throwing at a guys head but I am talking about backing a guy off the plate. And if you hit him in the ribs - oh well.
If I were putting a game plan against the Giants as a pitching coach it would be attack the zone early don’t nibble. If they hit an occasional solo home run so be it. But you’re not gonna walk people. Because without walks they’re not gonna beat you. Obviously with men on base you have to be a little more careful. But until then - just attack attack attack.
I have the same plan against the Dodgers. Of course the problem is they can beat you with solo home runs because their pitching is so damn good. But they absolutely thrive on walks.
Pitchers today have more “stuff” then at any time. But half of them are afraid to throw the damn thing in the strike zone. Particularly a fastball. I understand trying to get hitters to chase when ahead in the count. But against teams like the Dodgers, trying to get them to chase early in counts is futile. Because they won’t do it. Then they got you right where they want you.
(07-03-2021, 12:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 11:54 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
What will Belt bring on the market? Health is a big issue, given he’s reinjured a knee that reduced his effectiveness for over a year. So the Giants probably can sign him fairly cheaply. But of course they’ll also have concerns about his health.
Freeman would be the one guy out of the group of free agents that I go after hard. But I’ve read that he’s not likely to leave Atlanta. And the Giants have luxury liners full of money to spend next year. If they don’t shame on them. Obviously they need to do it wisely. But I trust Farhan to do that.
Phogge, you know I am not a fan of the style of play in today’s game. But the bottom line is the get deep into the count approach the Giants are taking has been very effective. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the only NL teams ahead of the Giants on things like walks and number of pitches seen are the Dodgers and the Padres.
What I don’t understand is why so many pitchers seem to try to nibble early in counts with nobody on base. Watching the Giants pitch to Max Muncy drove me nuts. He leads the league in walks. And he almost never swings at a pitch outside the strike zone. So what do the Giants do - essentially they come out with offspeed stuff just outside the zone which he spits on, fall behind then groove a fastball and he puts it in the stands. Or otherwise he walks. He’s more comfortable at the plate than I am sitting in my lazy boy with a beer in my hand. It’s absurd. Does anybody pitch inside with a purpose anymore? I’m not talking about throwing at a guys head but I am talking about backing a guy off the plate. And if you hit him in the ribs - oh well.
If I were putting a game plan against the Giants as a pitching coach it would be attack the zone early don’t nibble. If they hit an occasional solo home run so be it. But you’re not gonna walk people. Because without walks they’re not gonna beat you. Obviously with men on base you have to be a little more careful. But until then - just attack attack attack.
I have the same plan against the Dodgers. Of course the problem is they can beat you with solo home runs because their pitching is so damn good. But they absolutely thrive on walks.
Pitchers today have more “stuff” then at any time. But half of them are afraid to throw the damn thing in the strike zone. Particularly a fastball. I understand trying to get hitters to chase when ahead in the count. But against teams like the Dodgers, trying to get them to chase early in counts is futile. Because they won’t do it. Then they got you right where they want you.
The elephant in the room is the CBA which expires on Dec. 1st. I doubt that any free agent (or club) will make any decisions until a new CBA is signed. Who knows when that will be and, more importantly, what the new rules will be regarding the signing of free agents. I anticipate significant changes to the current process. Hopefully, the Giants will benefit from those changes.
Regardless, I am not looking forward to what will be rather bitter, protracted negotiations.
(07-03-2021, 12:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 11:54 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
What will Belt bring on the market? Health is a big issue, given he’s reinjured a knee that reduced his effectiveness for over a year. So the Giants probably can sign him fairly cheaply. But of course they’ll also have concerns about his health.
Freeman would be the one guy out of the group of free agents that I go after hard. But I’ve read that he’s not likely to leave Atlanta. And the Giants have luxury liners full of money to spend next year. If they don’t shame on them. Obviously they need to do it wisely. But I trust Farhan to do that.
Phogge, you know I am not a fan of the style of play in today’s game. But the bottom line is the get deep into the count approach the Giants are taking has been very effective. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the only NL teams ahead of the Giants on things like walks and number of pitches seen are the Dodgers and the Padres.
What I don’t understand is why so many pitchers seem to try to nibble early in counts with nobody on base. Watching the Giants pitch to Max Muncy drove me nuts. He leads the league in walks. And he almost never swings at a pitch outside the strike zone. So what do the Giants do - essentially they come out with offspeed stuff just outside the zone which he spits on, fall behind then groove a fastball and he puts it in the stands. Or otherwise he walks. He’s more comfortable at the plate than I am sitting in my lazy boy with a beer in my hand. It’s absurd. Does anybody pitch inside with a purpose anymore? I’m not talking about throwing at a guys head but I am talking about backing a guy off the plate. And if you hit him in the ribs - oh well.
If I were putting a game plan against the Giants as a pitching coach it would be attack the zone early don’t nibble. If they hit an occasional solo home run so be it. But you’re not gonna walk people. Because without walks they’re not gonna beat you. Obviously with men on base you have to be a little more careful. But until then - just attack attack attack.
I have the same plan against the Dodgers. Of course the problem is they can beat you with solo home runs because their pitching is so damn good. But they absolutely thrive on walks.
Pitchers today have more “stuff” then at any time. But half of them are afraid to throw the damn thing in the strike zone. Particularly a fastball. I understand trying to get hitters to chase when ahead in the count. But against teams like the Dodgers, trying to get them to chase early in counts is futile. Because they won’t do it. Then they got you right where they want you.
The elephant in the room is the CBA which expires on Dec. 1st. I doubt that any free agent (or club) will make any decisions until a new CBA is signed. Who knows when that will be and, more importantly, what the new rules will be regarding the signing of free agents. I anticipate significant changes to the current process. Hopefully, the Giants will benefit from those changes.
Regardless, I am not looking forward to what will be rather bitter, protracted negotiations.
07-03-2021, 04:45 PM
(07-03-2021, 03:04 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-03-2021, 12:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 11:54 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
What will Belt bring on the market? Health is a big issue, given he’s reinjured a knee that reduced his effectiveness for over a year. So the Giants probably can sign him fairly cheaply. But of course they’ll also have concerns about his health.
Freeman would be the one guy out of the group of free agents that I go after hard. But I’ve read that he’s not likely to leave Atlanta. And the Giants have luxury liners full of money to spend next year. If they don’t shame on them. Obviously they need to do it wisely. But I trust Farhan to do that.
Phogge, you know I am not a fan of the style of play in today’s game. But the bottom line is the get deep into the count approach the Giants are taking has been very effective. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the only NL teams ahead of the Giants on things like walks and number of pitches seen are the Dodgers and the Padres.
What I don’t understand is why so many pitchers seem to try to nibble early in counts with nobody on base. Watching the Giants pitch to Max Muncy drove me nuts. He leads the league in walks. And he almost never swings at a pitch outside the strike zone. So what do the Giants do - essentially they come out with offspeed stuff just outside the zone which he spits on, fall behind then groove a fastball and he puts it in the stands. Or otherwise he walks. He’s more comfortable at the plate than I am sitting in my lazy boy with a beer in my hand. It’s absurd. Does anybody pitch inside with a purpose anymore? I’m not talking about throwing at a guys head but I am talking about backing a guy off the plate. And if you hit him in the ribs - oh well.
If I were putting a game plan against the Giants as a pitching coach it would be attack the zone early don’t nibble. If they hit an occasional solo home run so be it. But you’re not gonna walk people. Because without walks they’re not gonna beat you. Obviously with men on base you have to be a little more careful. But until then - just attack attack attack.
I have the same plan against the Dodgers. Of course the problem is they can beat you with solo home runs because their pitching is so damn good. But they absolutely thrive on walks.
Pitchers today have more “stuff” then at any time. But half of them are afraid to throw the damn thing in the strike zone. Particularly a fastball. I understand trying to get hitters to chase when ahead in the count. But against teams like the Dodgers, trying to get them to chase early in counts is futile. Because they won’t do it. Then they got you right where they want you.
The elephant in the room is the CBA which expires on Dec. 1st. I doubt that any free agent (or club) will make any decisions until a new CBA is signed. Who knows when that will be and, more importantly, what the new rules will be regarding the signing of free agents. I anticipate significant changes to the current process. Hopefully, the Giants will benefit from those changes.
Regardless, I am not looking forward to what will be rather bitter, protracted negotiations.
Yep. Where it may hurt the Giants is trying to sign Gausman to an extension. A strike/lock out not beyond realm of possibility. Both “sides” don’t trust each other. Im interested to see what changes in terms of player control. I expect the Union to fight hard to reduce the time. As well they should. 6 years when you are old at 32 is way too long….
(07-03-2021, 03:04 PM)Giants Wrote:(07-03-2021, 12:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 11:54 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 10:30 AM)Phogge Wrote: Agree to disagree. Let him leave and use the bucks to sigh a FA first baseman.
Hmm, who do you have in mind?
There are only four other MLB first basemen scheduled to become free agents after this season who currently earn more $1,000,000 per year: Freddie Freeman, Anthony Rizzo, Mitch Moreland and Travis Shaw.
Obviously Moreland and Shaw would be massive downgrades.
Freeman would be a substantial upgrade (younger and far more productive) but would also represent a significantly higher salary (and years) commitment.
Rizzo is also younger than Belt and has had a more productive career, although more recently over last year's abbreviated season and the first three months of this year Belt has been better.
It's probable that Rizzo reaches free agency and possible that Freeman reaches free agency. If only Rizzo reaches free agency then SF would be investing substantial FA capital in a marginal (or possibly) no upgrade at the position. If Freeman also reaches free agency then SF would be investing enormous FA capital in upgrading a position which is already fairly strong. It's an illogical strategy given many other positions which are higher priorities.
Of course this also presumes that Rizzo and/or Freeman would be interesting in signing with SF. It could be that they would only choose to come to the SF if the Giants bid substantially more than other teams that are closer to home or have homer-friendlier home parks, or it could be that other suitors with similar offers will be preferred for the same reasons. Even worse, the scarcity of 1B free agent options means that Rizzo and/or Freeman are sure to be massively overpaid, moreso if only Rizzo becomes a free agent.
Letting Belt go seems like a case of "careful what you wish for" where SF ends up with a short term Mitch Moreland type "aggressively" hitting 238/286/388 instead of Belt looking at some third strikes while hitting 253/363/512.
What will Belt bring on the market? Health is a big issue, given he’s reinjured a knee that reduced his effectiveness for over a year. So the Giants probably can sign him fairly cheaply. But of course they’ll also have concerns about his health.
Freeman would be the one guy out of the group of free agents that I go after hard. But I’ve read that he’s not likely to leave Atlanta. And the Giants have luxury liners full of money to spend next year. If they don’t shame on them. Obviously they need to do it wisely. But I trust Farhan to do that.
Phogge, you know I am not a fan of the style of play in today’s game. But the bottom line is the get deep into the count approach the Giants are taking has been very effective. And I don’t think it’s an accident that the only NL teams ahead of the Giants on things like walks and number of pitches seen are the Dodgers and the Padres.
What I don’t understand is why so many pitchers seem to try to nibble early in counts with nobody on base. Watching the Giants pitch to Max Muncy drove me nuts. He leads the league in walks. And he almost never swings at a pitch outside the strike zone. So what do the Giants do - essentially they come out with offspeed stuff just outside the zone which he spits on, fall behind then groove a fastball and he puts it in the stands. Or otherwise he walks. He’s more comfortable at the plate than I am sitting in my lazy boy with a beer in my hand. It’s absurd. Does anybody pitch inside with a purpose anymore? I’m not talking about throwing at a guys head but I am talking about backing a guy off the plate. And if you hit him in the ribs - oh well.
If I were putting a game plan against the Giants as a pitching coach it would be attack the zone early don’t nibble. If they hit an occasional solo home run so be it. But you’re not gonna walk people. Because without walks they’re not gonna beat you. Obviously with men on base you have to be a little more careful. But until then - just attack attack attack.
I have the same plan against the Dodgers. Of course the problem is they can beat you with solo home runs because their pitching is so damn good. But they absolutely thrive on walks.
Pitchers today have more “stuff” then at any time. But half of them are afraid to throw the damn thing in the strike zone. Particularly a fastball. I understand trying to get hitters to chase when ahead in the count. But against teams like the Dodgers, trying to get them to chase early in counts is futile. Because they won’t do it. Then they got you right where they want you.
The elephant in the room is the CBA which expires on Dec. 1st. I doubt that any free agent (or club) will make any decisions until a new CBA is signed. Who knows when that will be and, more importantly, what the new rules will be regarding the signing of free agents. I anticipate significant changes to the current process. Hopefully, the Giants will benefit from those changes.
Regardless, I am not looking forward to what will be rather bitter, protracted negotiations.
Yep. Where it may hurt the Giants is trying to sign Gausman to an extension. A strike/lock out not beyond realm of possibility. Both “sides” don’t trust each other. Im interested to see what changes in terms of player control. I expect the Union to fight hard to reduce the time. As well they should. 6 years when you are old at 32 is way too long….
07-04-2021, 10:26 AM
If the Giants are going to contend all year, they need lots of things to go right. Up to now, they pretty much have. When somebody gets hurt, the replacement plays as well or better than the original "starter". When one hitter slumps, another gets hot. Perhaps Slater's HR will get him going, which the Giants need right now. This team has lots of issues. They rely on the HR way too much, and when the ball isn't leaving the park they can't score runs. That said, so far the stars have aligned for them. Lets hope it continues.
If the Giants are going to contend all year, they need lots of things to go right. Up to now, they pretty much have. When somebody gets hurt, the replacement plays as well or better than the original "starter". When one hitter slumps, another gets hot. Perhaps Slater's HR will get him going, which the Giants need right now. This team has lots of issues. They rely on the HR way too much, and when the ball isn't leaving the park they can't score runs. That said, so far the stars have aligned for them. Lets hope it continues.
07-04-2021, 10:42 AM
(07-04-2021, 10:03 AM)teejers1 Wrote:(07-03-2021, 03:30 PM)Phogge Wrote: Wade. Wade. Wade if not Freeman. Anybody but Belt.
Yeah, Wade is so valuable as a 1B, particularly last night. But that's okay, his crucial error was erased by you know who in Top of the 8th.
One game wonder.
07-04-2021, 11:20 AM
Just past the halfway mark, the Giants have the best record in baseball at 52-30, half a game ahead of the 51-30 Dodgers and 4.5 games ahead of the Padres.
Giants have scored T5th most runs in MLB at 405, and the 4th highest OPS at .762. They have the most HRs at 123, the 7th most walks at 318, but the 7th most strikeouts at 777. 11th best batting average at .243. They have the 2nd best ERA at 3.26 (after the Dodgers), and the best WHIP in MLB at 1.10, and the highest fielding average in the NL at .987.
The interesting thing is that the Giants have improved slightly in each of those categories (except batting average) from 2020 to 2021. The following statistics compare the full season of 2020 with the first half of 2021:
Runs (8th, 5th)
OPS (6th, 4th)
HRs (12th, 1st)
Walks (17th, 7th)
BA (5th, 11th)
ERA (18th, 2nd)
Giants have scored T5th most runs in MLB at 405, and the 4th highest OPS at .762. They have the most HRs at 123, the 7th most walks at 318, but the 7th most strikeouts at 777. 11th best batting average at .243. They have the 2nd best ERA at 3.26 (after the Dodgers), and the best WHIP in MLB at 1.10, and the highest fielding average in the NL at .987.
The interesting thing is that the Giants have improved slightly in each of those categories (except batting average) from 2020 to 2021. The following statistics compare the full season of 2020 with the first half of 2021:
Runs (8th, 5th)
OPS (6th, 4th)
HRs (12th, 1st)
Walks (17th, 7th)
BA (5th, 11th)
ERA (18th, 2nd)
Audaces fortuna iuvat
Just past the halfway mark, the Giants have the best record in baseball at 52-30, half a game ahead of the 51-30 Dodgers and 4.5 games ahead of the Padres.
Giants have scored T5th most runs in MLB at 405, and the 4th highest OPS at .762. They have the most HRs at 123, the 7th most walks at 318, but the 7th most strikeouts at 777. 11th best batting average at .243. They have the 2nd best ERA at 3.26 (after the Dodgers), and the best WHIP in MLB at 1.10, and the highest fielding average in the NL at .987.
The interesting thing is that the Giants have improved slightly in each of those categories (except batting average) from 2020 to 2021. The following statistics compare the full season of 2020 with the first half of 2021:
Runs (8th, 5th)
OPS (6th, 4th)
HRs (12th, 1st)
Walks (17th, 7th)
BA (5th, 11th)
ERA (18th, 2nd)
Giants have scored T5th most runs in MLB at 405, and the 4th highest OPS at .762. They have the most HRs at 123, the 7th most walks at 318, but the 7th most strikeouts at 777. 11th best batting average at .243. They have the 2nd best ERA at 3.26 (after the Dodgers), and the best WHIP in MLB at 1.10, and the highest fielding average in the NL at .987.
The interesting thing is that the Giants have improved slightly in each of those categories (except batting average) from 2020 to 2021. The following statistics compare the full season of 2020 with the first half of 2021:
Runs (8th, 5th)
OPS (6th, 4th)
HRs (12th, 1st)
Walks (17th, 7th)
BA (5th, 11th)
ERA (18th, 2nd)
Audaces fortuna iuvat
07-04-2021, 04:22 PM
Hey Teejers if Slater hadn't gone to Stanford would you feel the same way?
07-04-2021, 11:06 PM
(07-04-2021, 04:22 PM)Phogge Wrote: Hey Teejers if Slater hadn't gone to Stanford would you feel the same way?
I obviously root for him more because he went to Stanford (Belt did not, though, and I defend him pretty vigorously in these parts, too).
The thing about Slater is (a) he has the athleticism/tools to be an excellent defensive player - he is now merely good on D, and (b) he has an electric bat - his bat speed generates more power than you'd expect just looking at the guy (including RC field gap power). I'm partial to those attributes . . . which is also why the Estrada (I'm just going to call him "Erik") kid looks very intriguing.
(07-04-2021, 04:22 PM)Phogge Wrote: Hey Teejers if Slater hadn't gone to Stanford would you feel the same way?
I obviously root for him more because he went to Stanford (Belt did not, though, and I defend him pretty vigorously in these parts, too).
The thing about Slater is (a) he has the athleticism/tools to be an excellent defensive player - he is now merely good on D, and (b) he has an electric bat - his bat speed generates more power than you'd expect just looking at the guy (including RC field gap power). I'm partial to those attributes . . . which is also why the Estrada (I'm just going to call him "Erik") kid looks very intriguing.
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