10-23-2021, 09:44 PM
Outside Topic Giants/Niners 2021 thread
10-23-2021, 11:35 PM
(10-23-2021, 09:44 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-23-2021, 08:47 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Bye bye Dodgers. Braves onto the WS.
BC
Best Wishes to Houston and Dusty Baker.
Gotta be a lot of questions about the way Roberts screwed up his starting rotation.
Of course losing Kershaw didn’t help, but he wasn’t the old Kershaw this year either. And of course the Trevor Bauer thing. And IIRC they still have Cole Hamels stashed somewhere on the IL, don’t they?
Hmmm. Stanford beat $C and Oregon. The Giants over performed and the Dodgers went into the tank. Maybe this isn’t as bad a year as we think.
(10-23-2021, 09:44 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-23-2021, 08:47 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Bye bye Dodgers. Braves onto the WS.
BC
Best Wishes to Houston and Dusty Baker.
Gotta be a lot of questions about the way Roberts screwed up his starting rotation.
Of course losing Kershaw didn’t help, but he wasn’t the old Kershaw this year either. And of course the Trevor Bauer thing. And IIRC they still have Cole Hamels stashed somewhere on the IL, don’t they?
Hmmm. Stanford beat $C and Oregon. The Giants over performed and the Dodgers went into the tank. Maybe this isn’t as bad a year as we think.
(10-23-2021, 04:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: I have a feeling that we won't see many mega 10 year contracts unless it's the Yanks and Dodgers.
Well, 10 year contracts are already very rare so it's not difficult to presume that they will continue to be rare. The Yankees haven't issued a ten year contract since 2008.
In the last twenty years there have only been eleven 10-year contracts signed. The Padres (Tatis. Machado) and Angels (Trout, Pujols) are the only teams to issue more than one 10-year contract. The other teams are the Mets (Lindor), Dodgers (Betts), Phillies (Harper), Marlins (Stanton), Mariners (Cano), Reds (Votto) and Yankees (Rodriguez).
It's impossible to predict what will happen in the upcoming CBA negotiations other than the certainty of acrimony and the probability of a work stoppage or lockout. But long term contracts will probably continue at the present pace, driven by smaller revenue teams locking up their stars via extensions as much as by larger revenue teams signing free agents. Interestingly the Yankees and Dodgers have become fairly disciplined, analytically oriented teams; mega-contracts recently have been driven by owners seeking to make a splash and overriding their front offices (Arte Moreno, Steve Cohen, John Middleton, Peter Seidler et al).
(10-23-2021, 04:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: I have a feeling that we won't see many mega 10 year contracts unless it's the Yanks and Dodgers.
Well, 10 year contracts are already very rare so it's not difficult to presume that they will continue to be rare. The Yankees haven't issued a ten year contract since 2008.
In the last twenty years there have only been eleven 10-year contracts signed. The Padres (Tatis. Machado) and Angels (Trout, Pujols) are the only teams to issue more than one 10-year contract. The other teams are the Mets (Lindor), Dodgers (Betts), Phillies (Harper), Marlins (Stanton), Mariners (Cano), Reds (Votto) and Yankees (Rodriguez).
It's impossible to predict what will happen in the upcoming CBA negotiations other than the certainty of acrimony and the probability of a work stoppage or lockout. But long term contracts will probably continue at the present pace, driven by smaller revenue teams locking up their stars via extensions as much as by larger revenue teams signing free agents. Interestingly the Yankees and Dodgers have become fairly disciplined, analytically oriented teams; mega-contracts recently have been driven by owners seeking to make a splash and overriding their front offices (Arte Moreno, Steve Cohen, John Middleton, Peter Seidler et al).
10-24-2021, 10:18 AM
(10-24-2021, 09:42 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(10-23-2021, 04:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: I have a feeling that we won't see many mega 10 year contracts unless it's the Yanks and Dodgers.
Well, 10 year contracts are already very rare so it's not difficult to presume that they will continue to be rare. The Yankees haven't issued a ten year contract since 2008.
In the last twenty years there have only been eleven 10-year contracts signed. The Padres (Tatis. Machado) and Angels (Trout, Pujols) are the only teams to issue more than one 10-year contract. The other teams are the Mets (Lindor), Dodgers (Betts), Phillies (Harper), Marlins (Stanton), Mariners (Cano), Reds (Votto) and Yankees (Rodriguez).
It's impossible to predict what will happen in the upcoming CBA negotiations other than the certainty of acrimony and the probability of a work stoppage or lockout. But long term contracts will probably continue at the present pace, driven by smaller revenue teams locking up their stars via extensions as much as by larger revenue teams signing free agents. Interestingly the Yankees and Dodgers have become fairly disciplined, analytically oriented teams; mega-contracts recently have been driven by owners seeking to make a splash and overriding their front offices (Arte Moreno, Steve Cohen, John Middleton, Peter Seidler et al).
Not sure I consider an $260,000,000 payroll “disciplined”. They have some interesting choices coming up Seager, Taylor, Scherzer and Kershaw to name a few. Their farm system is (finally) somewhat depleted.
I’m wondering what they are thinking given Scherzer opting out of game 6 for a “tired arm”. If it was worse than that and there’s actually something going on I understand. If it’s a tired arm – can you imagine any great picture of the past doing that. Can you imagine Madison Bumgarner saying my arms tired I don’t wanna go. No freaking way.
That was the type of game the Dodgers got him for. I have to think there’s a fair amount of disappointment in dodgerville
(10-24-2021, 09:42 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(10-23-2021, 04:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: I have a feeling that we won't see many mega 10 year contracts unless it's the Yanks and Dodgers.
Well, 10 year contracts are already very rare so it's not difficult to presume that they will continue to be rare. The Yankees haven't issued a ten year contract since 2008.
In the last twenty years there have only been eleven 10-year contracts signed. The Padres (Tatis. Machado) and Angels (Trout, Pujols) are the only teams to issue more than one 10-year contract. The other teams are the Mets (Lindor), Dodgers (Betts), Phillies (Harper), Marlins (Stanton), Mariners (Cano), Reds (Votto) and Yankees (Rodriguez).
It's impossible to predict what will happen in the upcoming CBA negotiations other than the certainty of acrimony and the probability of a work stoppage or lockout. But long term contracts will probably continue at the present pace, driven by smaller revenue teams locking up their stars via extensions as much as by larger revenue teams signing free agents. Interestingly the Yankees and Dodgers have become fairly disciplined, analytically oriented teams; mega-contracts recently have been driven by owners seeking to make a splash and overriding their front offices (Arte Moreno, Steve Cohen, John Middleton, Peter Seidler et al).
Not sure I consider an $260,000,000 payroll “disciplined”. They have some interesting choices coming up Seager, Taylor, Scherzer and Kershaw to name a few. Their farm system is (finally) somewhat depleted.
I’m wondering what they are thinking given Scherzer opting out of game 6 for a “tired arm”. If it was worse than that and there’s actually something going on I understand. If it’s a tired arm – can you imagine any great picture of the past doing that. Can you imagine Madison Bumgarner saying my arms tired I don’t wanna go. No freaking way.
That was the type of game the Dodgers got him for. I have to think there’s a fair amount of disappointment in dodgerville
10-24-2021, 11:24 AM
(10-24-2021, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: I’m wondering what they are thinking given Scherzer opting out of game 6 for a “tired arm”. If it was worse than that and there’s actually something going on I understand. If it’s a tired arm – can you imagine any great picture of the past doing that. Can you imagine Madison Bumgarner saying my arms tired I don’t wanna go. No freaking way.Is it for sure Scherzer actually said that? I kind of wonder if the manager/pitching coach looked at how his bullpen was going and actually made the decision. I can't imagine any player saying he wouldn't go out there, but I can imagine management looking at how the pitcher is throwing and deciding to change horses. It did seem to be kind of last minute. For sure it won't help his stock in LA that he wasn't available.
That was the type of game the Dodgers got him for. I have to think there’s a fair amount of disappointment in dodgerville
(10-24-2021, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: I’m wondering what they are thinking given Scherzer opting out of game 6 for a “tired arm”. If it was worse than that and there’s actually something going on I understand. If it’s a tired arm – can you imagine any great picture of the past doing that. Can you imagine Madison Bumgarner saying my arms tired I don’t wanna go. No freaking way.Is it for sure Scherzer actually said that? I kind of wonder if the manager/pitching coach looked at how his bullpen was going and actually made the decision. I can't imagine any player saying he wouldn't go out there, but I can imagine management looking at how the pitcher is throwing and deciding to change horses. It did seem to be kind of last minute. For sure it won't help his stock in LA that he wasn't available.
That was the type of game the Dodgers got him for. I have to think there’s a fair amount of disappointment in dodgerville
10-24-2021, 11:40 AM
(10-24-2021, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not sure I consider an $260,000,000 payroll “disciplined”. They have some interesting choices coming up Seager, Taylor, Scherzer and Kershaw to name a few.
The Dodgers have a large payroll but they have been very disciplined in adhering to their process. The Betts extension was the first $100 million contract ever issued under the Friedman regime. They signed Bauer to a high AAV but only a three year commitment, similar to the offer they made to Harper. They have used their prospect capital in trades but held onto their highest ranked prospects. If they engage in any long term free agent contracts they will surely be for players under 30 like Betts.
I'm betting that Zaidi will follow his former employers' model, which may disappoint SF fans hoping for splashy free agent forays but will result in sustainable competitiveness.
(10-24-2021, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not sure I consider an $260,000,000 payroll “disciplined”. They have some interesting choices coming up Seager, Taylor, Scherzer and Kershaw to name a few.
The Dodgers have a large payroll but they have been very disciplined in adhering to their process. The Betts extension was the first $100 million contract ever issued under the Friedman regime. They signed Bauer to a high AAV but only a three year commitment, similar to the offer they made to Harper. They have used their prospect capital in trades but held onto their highest ranked prospects. If they engage in any long term free agent contracts they will surely be for players under 30 like Betts.
I'm betting that Zaidi will follow his former employers' model, which may disappoint SF fans hoping for splashy free agent forays but will result in sustainable competitiveness.
10-24-2021, 12:20 PM
(10-24-2021, 11:40 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(10-24-2021, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not sure I consider an $260,000,000 payroll “disciplined”. They have some interesting choices coming up Seager, Taylor, Scherzer and Kershaw to name a few.
The Dodgers have a large payroll but they have been very disciplined in adhering to their process. The Betts extension was the first $100 million contract ever issued under the Friedman regime. They signed Bauer to a high AAV but only a three year commitment, similar to the offer they made to Harper. They have used their prospect capital in trades but held onto their highest ranked prospects. If they engage in any long term free agent contracts they will surely be for players under 30 like Betts.
I'm betting that Zaidi will follow his former employers' model, which may disappoint SF fans hoping for splashy free agent forays but will result in sustainable competitiveness.
Overall, I agree. However, LA made a brobdingnagian error is signing Bauer for a couple reasons.
1) He was known as a difficult personality long before the incident that resulted in his suspension. There is a reason he bounced from team to team. Teams could deal with him for only so long before his behavior overrode his talent. For that reason, I was hoping SF would stay away from him last offseason.
2) He was a guy who thrived on the ability to load the ball. It was inevitable that MLB would crackdown. The Athletic had an article earlier this year that detailed the analysis the Giants did on every pitcher they signed in the offseason to make certain their success wasn’t built on artificial spin rates. They foresaw the action that was taken this summer and benefitted from the new rules. While we will never know, I suggest that Bauer would not have had as effective a second half to the season.
The Bauer signing wreaked of hubris. It will be interesting to see if LA doubles down or reverts back to the “disciplined” approach…..
(10-24-2021, 11:40 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(10-24-2021, 10:18 AM)lex24 Wrote: Not sure I consider an $260,000,000 payroll “disciplined”. They have some interesting choices coming up Seager, Taylor, Scherzer and Kershaw to name a few.
The Dodgers have a large payroll but they have been very disciplined in adhering to their process. The Betts extension was the first $100 million contract ever issued under the Friedman regime. They signed Bauer to a high AAV but only a three year commitment, similar to the offer they made to Harper. They have used their prospect capital in trades but held onto their highest ranked prospects. If they engage in any long term free agent contracts they will surely be for players under 30 like Betts.
I'm betting that Zaidi will follow his former employers' model, which may disappoint SF fans hoping for splashy free agent forays but will result in sustainable competitiveness.
Overall, I agree. However, LA made a brobdingnagian error is signing Bauer for a couple reasons.
1) He was known as a difficult personality long before the incident that resulted in his suspension. There is a reason he bounced from team to team. Teams could deal with him for only so long before his behavior overrode his talent. For that reason, I was hoping SF would stay away from him last offseason.
2) He was a guy who thrived on the ability to load the ball. It was inevitable that MLB would crackdown. The Athletic had an article earlier this year that detailed the analysis the Giants did on every pitcher they signed in the offseason to make certain their success wasn’t built on artificial spin rates. They foresaw the action that was taken this summer and benefitted from the new rules. While we will never know, I suggest that Bauer would not have had as effective a second half to the season.
The Bauer signing wreaked of hubris. It will be interesting to see if LA doubles down or reverts back to the “disciplined” approach…..
10-24-2021, 12:21 PM
(10-23-2021, 11:35 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(10-23-2021, 09:44 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-23-2021, 08:47 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Bye bye Dodgers. Braves onto the WS.
BC
Best Wishes to Houston and Dusty Baker.
Gotta be a lot of questions about the way Roberts screwed up his starting rotation.
Of course losing Kershaw didn’t help, but he wasn’t the old Kershaw this year either. And of course the Trevor Bauer thing. And IIRC they still have Cole Hamels stashed somewhere on the IL, don’t they?
Hmmm. Stanford beat $C and Oregon. The Giants over performed and the Dodgers went into the tank. Maybe this isn’t as bad a year as we think.
And the Sharks are 4-0. And the Warriors are 2-0.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
(10-23-2021, 11:35 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(10-23-2021, 09:44 PM)Giants Wrote:(10-23-2021, 08:47 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Bye bye Dodgers. Braves onto the WS.
BC
Best Wishes to Houston and Dusty Baker.
Gotta be a lot of questions about the way Roberts screwed up his starting rotation.
Of course losing Kershaw didn’t help, but he wasn’t the old Kershaw this year either. And of course the Trevor Bauer thing. And IIRC they still have Cole Hamels stashed somewhere on the IL, don’t they?
Hmmm. Stanford beat $C and Oregon. The Giants over performed and the Dodgers went into the tank. Maybe this isn’t as bad a year as we think.
And the Sharks are 4-0. And the Warriors are 2-0.
Audaces fortuna iuvat
10-24-2021, 01:51 PM
(10-24-2021, 12:20 PM)Giants Wrote: Overall, I agree. However, LA made a of immense proportions error is signing Bauer for a couple reasons.
1) He was known as a difficult personality long before the incident that resulted in his suspension. There is a reason he bounced from team to team. Teams could deal with him for only so long before his behavior overrode his talent. For that reason, I was hoping SF would stay away from him last offseason.
2) He was a guy who thrived on the ability to load the ball. It was inevitable that MLB would crackdown. The Athletic had an article earlier this year that detailed the analysis the Giants did on every pitcher they signed in the offseason to make certain their success wasn’t built on artificial spin rates. They foresaw the action that was taken this summer and benefitted from the new rules. While we will never know, I suggest that Bauer would not have had as effective a second half to the season.
The Bauer signing wreaked of hubris. It will be interesting to see if LA doubles down or reverts back to the “disciplined” approach…..
I agree; I thought the Bauer signing was a mistake at the time for the reasons you cited, and it's turned into a disaster. But even that signing was on brand in that it was a three year commitment at most. The Dodgers have been consistent in avoiding long term commitments to aging players (or to pitchers, who are always injury risks) who can become albatrosses. Even in the worst case scenario of paying Bauer for two more seasons LA is better off than being on the hook for years of Corbin, Strasburg, Bumgarner or similar starters, not to mention having avoided obvious long term horror contracts like Pujols, Cabrera, Cano, Davis, Hosmer, etc.
(10-24-2021, 12:20 PM)Giants Wrote: Overall, I agree. However, LA made a of immense proportions error is signing Bauer for a couple reasons.
1) He was known as a difficult personality long before the incident that resulted in his suspension. There is a reason he bounced from team to team. Teams could deal with him for only so long before his behavior overrode his talent. For that reason, I was hoping SF would stay away from him last offseason.
2) He was a guy who thrived on the ability to load the ball. It was inevitable that MLB would crackdown. The Athletic had an article earlier this year that detailed the analysis the Giants did on every pitcher they signed in the offseason to make certain their success wasn’t built on artificial spin rates. They foresaw the action that was taken this summer and benefitted from the new rules. While we will never know, I suggest that Bauer would not have had as effective a second half to the season.
The Bauer signing wreaked of hubris. It will be interesting to see if LA doubles down or reverts back to the “disciplined” approach…..
I agree; I thought the Bauer signing was a mistake at the time for the reasons you cited, and it's turned into a disaster. But even that signing was on brand in that it was a three year commitment at most. The Dodgers have been consistent in avoiding long term commitments to aging players (or to pitchers, who are always injury risks) who can become albatrosses. Even in the worst case scenario of paying Bauer for two more seasons LA is better off than being on the hook for years of Corbin, Strasburg, Bumgarner or similar starters, not to mention having avoided obvious long term horror contracts like Pujols, Cabrera, Cano, Davis, Hosmer, etc.
10-24-2021, 04:45 PM
10-24-2021, 06:39 PM
(10-24-2021, 04:45 PM)BobK Wrote: Dodgers were missing their MVP
https://twitter.com/gggiants/status/1452...52994?s=21
LOL
(10-24-2021, 04:45 PM)BobK Wrote: Dodgers were missing their MVP
https://twitter.com/gggiants/status/1452...52994?s=21
LOL
10-26-2021, 03:36 PM
With Stanford and the Niners fading into the mist there is Breeders Cup, the PGA Western swing, the Hot Stove League and spring training but the last two traditions may be cancelled.
Ah well... there is always the Ted Cup.
Ah well... there is always the Ted Cup.
10-26-2021, 04:35 PM
(10-26-2021, 03:36 PM)Phogge Wrote: With Stanford and the Niners fading into the mist there is Breeders Cup, the PGA Western swing, the Hot Stove League and spring training but the last two traditions may be cancelled.
Ah well... there is always the Ted Cup.
We didn't even win that one last year.
BC
(10-26-2021, 03:36 PM)Phogge Wrote: With Stanford and the Niners fading into the mist there is Breeders Cup, the PGA Western swing, the Hot Stove League and spring training but the last two traditions may be cancelled.
Ah well... there is always the Ted Cup.
We didn't even win that one last year.
BC
10-26-2021, 06:38 PM
... and Bobbbbb was crushed. And De Lasalle beat his beloved Folsom.
Where the hell is Troy Taylor? And has Treggs found a home in Palo Alto yet?
Where the hell is Troy Taylor? And has Treggs found a home in Palo Alto yet?
10-26-2021, 06:55 PM
Troy Taylor is Head Coach at Sacramento State and they are doing very good
10-26-2021, 10:21 PM
The Astros go down but Charlie Morton breaks his leg. What the hell, does Houston employ the Stanford trainers?
10-27-2021, 01:12 PM
(10-26-2021, 06:55 PM)BobK Wrote: Troy Taylor is Head Coach at Sacramento State and they are doing very good
Taylor is, indeed, doing well. He and Brent Brennan (San Jose State) are a couple of local guys who have taken near-dead programs and given them new life in very short time. Worth paying attention to, for sure.
Life is too short to waste on crap football.
(10-26-2021, 06:55 PM)BobK Wrote: Troy Taylor is Head Coach at Sacramento State and they are doing very good
Taylor is, indeed, doing well. He and Brent Brennan (San Jose State) are a couple of local guys who have taken near-dead programs and given them new life in very short time. Worth paying attention to, for sure.
Life is too short to waste on crap football.
10-27-2021, 03:56 PM
(10-27-2021, 01:12 PM)gailtate Wrote:The Kal folks certainly are paying attention. However, while Troy Taylor is doing well at Sac State, his tenure as Utah OC wasn't regarded as so successful. It may be he is a better HC than coordinator. In any case, while there is P5 interest in him, he claims he likes it right where he is.(10-26-2021, 06:55 PM)BobK Wrote: Troy Taylor is Head Coach at Sacramento State and they are doing very good
Taylor is, indeed, doing well. He and Brent Brennan (San Jose State) are a couple of local guys who have taken near-dead programs and given them new life in very short time. Worth paying attention to, for sure.
(10-27-2021, 01:12 PM)gailtate Wrote:The Kal folks certainly are paying attention. However, while Troy Taylor is doing well at Sac State, his tenure as Utah OC wasn't regarded as so successful. It may be he is a better HC than coordinator. In any case, while there is P5 interest in him, he claims he likes it right where he is.(10-26-2021, 06:55 PM)BobK Wrote: Troy Taylor is Head Coach at Sacramento State and they are doing very good
Taylor is, indeed, doing well. He and Brent Brennan (San Jose State) are a couple of local guys who have taken near-dead programs and given them new life in very short time. Worth paying attention to, for sure.
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