[Spiny_Norman]

The golf course is playing tougher today for everyone. Well everyone except for YuSang Hou of Arizona who shot 66.

Stanford is going to win the regional in dominating fashion. The only drama remaining is who will win the medal, Rachel Heck or Angelina Ye. They are currently tied at -9, two shots clear of Maja Stark of Oklahoma State.

Florida has made a late run to try to get into the top 6. They are 7th and trailing USC by only 2 shots with 2 to play.

There were 2 big stories at other regionals. The #1 team in the country South Carolina just barely qualified for the NCAAs. They tied for 6th in Louisville and had to win a playoff vs. Arkansas. And the NCAA tournament committee cancelled the regional in Baton Rouge without a single shot played. They said that the course was playable, but not in championship condition. Yet, coaches reported that there was no grounds crew out working to get the course in championship condition. Also the course had no pumps to remove water say from bunkers where it had accumulated. Devastating for teams that were not ranked in the top 6 at Baton Rouge. They had no chance to play their way to Scottsdale. Another black eye for the NCAA.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/05/12...ntroversy/

Edit - also Auburn, the #9 team in the country, qualified for NCAAs by one shot in Louisville when their #2 player Kaleigh Telfer made eagle 3 on the final hole. That's clutch.

[Spiny_Norman]

The golf course is playing tougher today for everyone. Well everyone except for YuSang Hou of Arizona who shot 66.

Stanford is going to win the regional in dominating fashion. The only drama remaining is who will win the medal, Rachel Heck or Angelina Ye. They are currently tied at -9, two shots clear of Maja Stark of Oklahoma State.

Florida has made a late run to try to get into the top 6. They are 7th and trailing USC by only 2 shots with 2 to play.

There were 2 big stories at other regionals. The #1 team in the country South Carolina just barely qualified for the NCAAs. They tied for 6th in Louisville and had to win a playoff vs. Arkansas. And the NCAA tournament committee cancelled the regional in Baton Rouge without a single shot played. They said that the course was playable, but not in championship condition. Yet, coaches reported that there was no grounds crew out working to get the course in championship condition. Also the course had no pumps to remove water say from bunkers where it had accumulated. Devastating for teams that were not ranked in the top 6 at Baton Rouge. They had no chance to play their way to Scottsdale. Another black eye for the NCAA.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/05/12...ntroversy/

Edit - also Auburn, the #9 team in the country, qualified for NCAAs by one shot in Louisville when their #2 player Kaleigh Telfer made eagle 3 on the final hole. That's clutch.

[BostonCard]

Again, one of the only teams to clear par (-3 with an average of 1.5 holes left), with Arizona being the only other.  We will win with something like a 28 stroke lead over second place, and unless Virginia Tech or Wake Forest shoot some birdies in their last holes, we will be the only team to end below par.  The gap between Stanford and the second place team (28 strokes) is greater than the gap between the second and tenth place teams.

Now let's just carry this forward to the finals.  And, of course, let's hope that we are not done in by one bad round in the match play (assuming we get there).

BC

[BostonCard]

Again, one of the only teams to clear par (-3 with an average of 1.5 holes left), with Arizona being the only other.  We will win with something like a 28 stroke lead over second place, and unless Virginia Tech or Wake Forest shoot some birdies in their last holes, we will be the only team to end below par.  The gap between Stanford and the second place team (28 strokes) is greater than the gap between the second and tenth place teams.

Now let's just carry this forward to the finals.  And, of course, let's hope that we are not done in by one bad round in the match play (assuming we get there).

BC

[bbm233]

Rachel Heck is the medalist at 11 under. Pac 12 tourney medalist. 3 time regular season tourney winner. Won a US Open qualifier. Won the "college play day" event at the US Open course. Now an NCAA regional medalist. Has a frosh ever had such a year!?!

[bbm233]

Rachel Heck is the medalist at 11 under. Pac 12 tourney medalist. 3 time regular season tourney winner. Won a US Open qualifier. Won the "college play day" event at the US Open course. Now an NCAA regional medalist. Has a frosh ever had such a year!?!

[Canalejas]

Gotta feel bad for Oregon State, being the seventh-seeded team in that canceled Baton Rouge regional.

[Canalejas]

Gotta feel bad for Oregon State, being the seventh-seeded team in that canceled Baton Rouge regional.

[GK3]

Gotta feel bad for Oregon State, being the seventh-seeded team in that canceled Baton Rouge regional.

Once again the NCAA looks more like the rear end of a horse.

[GK3]

Gotta feel bad for Oregon State, being the seventh-seeded team in that canceled Baton Rouge regional.

Once again the NCAA looks more like the rear end of a horse.

[winflop]

Wow. Just wow. Not only did Stanford win by 30 strokes, they were the only team to shoot under par at any of the regionals. This was a statement to every team that will be in Phoenix for the finals - this is the team to beat. They broke the school record they set earlier this year for lowest 54-hole score, on a setup that nobody else broke par on. Home course or not, they dominated from start to finish.

And Rachel Heck. Insane. I think that's 10 or 11 consecutive rounds in the 60s, also a school record. She's unreal. I feel bad for Angie Ye who missed a five-footer on 18 that would have tied her teammate for the individual title. Even so, 10-under is a great tournament when only 11 of 93 players finished under par at all.

So why'd they "only" shoot 4-under today? I have never seen the pins set up so tough at Stanford. I can only think of two greens where the pin wasn't in the most difficult location. I asked a friend who was one the rules officials who the sadist was that set the pins today, and he just smiled at me and said "it was done by committee."

I walked with Aline Krauter today. She seemed happy to post a 1-under 70. She played really well. A couple of misclubs on the back nine or she would have had a great round. You might see her or Heck on TV in a few weeks. Both of them, as well as incoming freshman Rose Zhang, have all qualified for the US Women's Open at Olympic at the beginning of June.

The Baton Rouge Regional was completely washed out. The six highest-seeded teams will advance to the finals. My uncle, who has been a USGA rules official for nearly 30 years, was there and said he's never seen anything like it. I think the NCAA is going to have to change the rules and have more flexibility in the future.

There will be a strong Pac-12 presence at the finals with six of the 24 teams qualifying - Stanford, Arizona, U$C, UCLA, ASU, and Oregon.

[winflop]

Wow. Just wow. Not only did Stanford win by 30 strokes, they were the only team to shoot under par at any of the regionals. This was a statement to every team that will be in Phoenix for the finals - this is the team to beat. They broke the school record they set earlier this year for lowest 54-hole score, on a setup that nobody else broke par on. Home course or not, they dominated from start to finish.

And Rachel Heck. Insane. I think that's 10 or 11 consecutive rounds in the 60s, also a school record. She's unreal. I feel bad for Angie Ye who missed a five-footer on 18 that would have tied her teammate for the individual title. Even so, 10-under is a great tournament when only 11 of 93 players finished under par at all.

So why'd they "only" shoot 4-under today? I have never seen the pins set up so tough at Stanford. I can only think of two greens where the pin wasn't in the most difficult location. I asked a friend who was one the rules officials who the sadist was that set the pins today, and he just smiled at me and said "it was done by committee."

I walked with Aline Krauter today. She seemed happy to post a 1-under 70. She played really well. A couple of misclubs on the back nine or she would have had a great round. You might see her or Heck on TV in a few weeks. Both of them, as well as incoming freshman Rose Zhang, have all qualified for the US Women's Open at Olympic at the beginning of June.

The Baton Rouge Regional was completely washed out. The six highest-seeded teams will advance to the finals. My uncle, who has been a USGA rules official for nearly 30 years, was there and said he's never seen anything like it. I think the NCAA is going to have to change the rules and have more flexibility in the future.

There will be a strong Pac-12 presence at the finals with six of the 24 teams qualifying - Stanford, Arizona, U$C, UCLA, ASU, and Oregon.

[fullmetal]

The Baton Rouge Regional was completely washed out. The six highest-seeded teams will advance to the finals. My uncle, who has been a USGA rules official for nearly 30 years, was there and said he's never seen anything like it. I think the NCAA is going to have to change the rules and have more flexibility in the future.

By washed out, do you mean that the course was only *just* playable?  Or would some have declared it unplayable at all?  Very interested in your uncle's expert opinion.  What rules changes do you think the NCAA needs to implement?  Moving venues or moving the weekend if inclement weather threatens the course?

[fullmetal]

The Baton Rouge Regional was completely washed out. The six highest-seeded teams will advance to the finals. My uncle, who has been a USGA rules official for nearly 30 years, was there and said he's never seen anything like it. I think the NCAA is going to have to change the rules and have more flexibility in the future.

By washed out, do you mean that the course was only *just* playable?  Or would some have declared it unplayable at all?  Very interested in your uncle's expert opinion.  What rules changes do you think the NCAA needs to implement?  Moving venues or moving the weekend if inclement weather threatens the course?

[BobK]

Rule change # 1. Women are equal
Wow it never ends with the ncaa.

WBB
WVB
Beach
Softball coming but not equal
Why????

[BobK]

Rule change # 1. Women are equal
Wow it never ends with the ncaa.

WBB
WVB
Beach
Softball coming but not equal
Why????

[76lsjumb]

Rule change # 1.  Women are equal
Wow it never ends with the ncaa. 

WBB
WVB
Beach
Softball coming but not equal
Why????

How were the women’s Beach VB conditions worse than the men’s Beach VB conditions?

[76lsjumb]

Rule change # 1.  Women are equal
Wow it never ends with the ncaa. 

WBB
WVB
Beach
Softball coming but not equal
Why????

How were the women’s Beach VB conditions worse than the men’s Beach VB conditions?

[winflop]

The Baton Rouge Regional was completely washed out. The six highest-seeded teams will advance to the finals. My uncle, who has been a USGA rules official for nearly 30 years, was there and said he's never seen anything like it. I think the NCAA is going to have to change the rules and have more flexibility in the future.

By washed out, do you mean that the course was only *just* playable?  Or would some have declared it unplayable at all?  Very interested in your uncle's expert opinion.  What rules changes do you think the NCAA needs to implement?  Moving venues or moving the weekend if inclement weather threatens the course?

My uncle needs to toe the line rather carefully here. He hasn't given me any insight nor am I going to ask him for any. It was the NCAA that made the call, not the USGA rules officials who are simply there to implement what the NCAA decides. apparently there was some controversy about whether the course was unplayable on Wednesday and whether the course did enough to try to make it playable. But the reality is that they received 7-8 inches of rain over Monday & Tuesday. Not a lot of courses that can handle that amount of water and be playable the day after the storm.

I don't see a men vs women issue here. I think the same decision would have been made regardless.

One thing I did learn from an NCAA person at the Stanford regional is that if a regional is played, it only needs to be 18 holes for the women but 36 holes for the men. That needs to be changed immediately and this official said that was absolutely going to be taken up ASAP in the wake of this. The challenge with playing 36 in one day is that there might be too many teams/players to pull it off. See below for a solution.

I want to be careful about changing too much because this is a VERY rare occurrence - like I said, my uncle hasn't seen this in more than 25 years. But here are three changes I would make:
- Regionals should have a one-day buffer, finals should have a two-day buffer (they are twice as long due to stroke play & match play portions). The challenge is the additional travel cost this can put on programs and officials, but I think it's necessary
- NCAA needs to ensure that host courses have "all hands on deck" contingency plans to get the course into playable condition as quickly as possible. From the reports I've read, I don't get the sense that this happened in Baton Rouge. I'm not sure whose fault that is, but I don't care. The NCAA needs to make sure there's a plan with resources in place
- Reduce the fields at each women's regional from 18 to 15 teams so that if necessary, 36 holes can be played in one day (double shotgun). This allows the tournament to stay on schedule for a full 54-hole tournament in the event that one day is washed out. This would require a fifth regional, but it would also align with the men who play 15-team regionals with 5 teams and two individuals qualifying for the finals

[winflop]

The Baton Rouge Regional was completely washed out. The six highest-seeded teams will advance to the finals. My uncle, who has been a USGA rules official for nearly 30 years, was there and said he's never seen anything like it. I think the NCAA is going to have to change the rules and have more flexibility in the future.

By washed out, do you mean that the course was only *just* playable?  Or would some have declared it unplayable at all?  Very interested in your uncle's expert opinion.  What rules changes do you think the NCAA needs to implement?  Moving venues or moving the weekend if inclement weather threatens the course?

My uncle needs to toe the line rather carefully here. He hasn't given me any insight nor am I going to ask him for any. It was the NCAA that made the call, not the USGA rules officials who are simply there to implement what the NCAA decides. apparently there was some controversy about whether the course was unplayable on Wednesday and whether the course did enough to try to make it playable. But the reality is that they received 7-8 inches of rain over Monday & Tuesday. Not a lot of courses that can handle that amount of water and be playable the day after the storm.

I don't see a men vs women issue here. I think the same decision would have been made regardless.

One thing I did learn from an NCAA person at the Stanford regional is that if a regional is played, it only needs to be 18 holes for the women but 36 holes for the men. That needs to be changed immediately and this official said that was absolutely going to be taken up ASAP in the wake of this. The challenge with playing 36 in one day is that there might be too many teams/players to pull it off. See below for a solution.

I want to be careful about changing too much because this is a VERY rare occurrence - like I said, my uncle hasn't seen this in more than 25 years. But here are three changes I would make:
- Regionals should have a one-day buffer, finals should have a two-day buffer (they are twice as long due to stroke play & match play portions). The challenge is the additional travel cost this can put on programs and officials, but I think it's necessary
- NCAA needs to ensure that host courses have "all hands on deck" contingency plans to get the course into playable condition as quickly as possible. From the reports I've read, I don't get the sense that this happened in Baton Rouge. I'm not sure whose fault that is, but I don't care. The NCAA needs to make sure there's a plan with resources in place
- Reduce the fields at each women's regional from 18 to 15 teams so that if necessary, 36 holes can be played in one day (double shotgun). This allows the tournament to stay on schedule for a full 54-hole tournament in the event that one day is washed out. This would require a fifth regional, but it would also align with the men who play 15-team regionals with 5 teams and two individuals qualifying for the finals

[BobK]

Excellent ideas. Thank you Win

[BobK]

Excellent ideas. Thank you Win

[Spiny_Norman]

- Reduce the fields at each women's regional from 18 to 15 teams so that if necessary, 36 holes can be played in one day (double shotgun). This allows the tournament to stay on schedule for a full 54-hole tournament in the event that one day is washed out. This would require a fifth regional, but it would also align with the men who play 15-team regionals with 5 teams and two individuals qualifying for the finals

The NCAA also needs to add regionals to allow 30 women's teams to qualify for NCAAs, same as the men. As it is now, the women's field is 24, or 80% of the men's. This was set in 2015 when the NCAA changed the format for the women's tournament from all medal to the current medal and match play format. As far as I know, there are no other sports for which the NCAA runs men's and women's championships where the field for the women is smaller than that for the men.

[Spiny_Norman]

- Reduce the fields at each women's regional from 18 to 15 teams so that if necessary, 36 holes can be played in one day (double shotgun). This allows the tournament to stay on schedule for a full 54-hole tournament in the event that one day is washed out. This would require a fifth regional, but it would also align with the men who play 15-team regionals with 5 teams and two individuals qualifying for the finals

The NCAA also needs to add regionals to allow 30 women's teams to qualify for NCAAs, same as the men. As it is now, the women's field is 24, or 80% of the men's. This was set in 2015 when the NCAA changed the format for the women's tournament from all medal to the current medal and match play format. As far as I know, there are no other sports for which the NCAA runs men's and women's championships where the field for the women is smaller than that for the men.

[Canalejas]

According to the NCAA directory there are 267 Division I women's golf programs, compared to 298 for the men. So 90% as many women's teams as men's.  The national tournament differences should be closer to that 90%, I think.

[Canalejas]

According to the NCAA directory there are 267 Division I women's golf programs, compared to 298 for the men. So 90% as many women's teams as men's.  The national tournament differences should be closer to that 90%, I think.

[Spiny_Norman]

According to the NCAA directory there are 267 Division I women's golf programs, compared to 298 for the men. So 90% as many women's teams as men's.  The national tournament differences should be closer to that 90%, I think.

Canalejas, my suspicion is that the smaller size is driven by convenience, not equity. The smaller field allows the NCAA to run only 4 regionals for the women vs. 6 for the men. And it helps to ensure that the women's tournament (which is held the week prior to the men's tournament) finishes on time even with weather delays so as not to disrupt the men's schedule. The NCAA should do better.

[Spiny_Norman]

According to the NCAA directory there are 267 Division I women's golf programs, compared to 298 for the men. So 90% as many women's teams as men's.  The national tournament differences should be closer to that 90%, I think.

Canalejas, my suspicion is that the smaller size is driven by convenience, not equity. The smaller field allows the NCAA to run only 4 regionals for the women vs. 6 for the men. And it helps to ensure that the women's tournament (which is held the week prior to the men's tournament) finishes on time even with weather delays so as not to disrupt the men's schedule. The NCAA should do better.

[Canalejas]

Agreed, the NCAA should do better.

[Canalejas]

Agreed, the NCAA should do better.

[winflop]

According to the NCAA directory there are 267 Division I women's golf programs, compared to 298 for the men. So 90% as many women's teams as men's.  The national tournament differences should be closer to that 90%, I think.

Canalejas, my suspicion is that the smaller size is driven by convenience, not equity. The smaller field allows the NCAA to run only 4 regionals for the women vs. 6 for the men. And it helps to ensure that the women's tournament (which is held the week prior to the men's tournament) finishes on time even with weather delays so as not to disrupt the men's schedule. The NCAA should do better.

Men have six 15-team regionals = 90 teams
Women have four 18-team regionals = 72 teams (80%). My proposal is five 15-team regionals = 75 teams (83%)

Interesting to note that there are only 11 schools in the Pac-12 with women's golf. Utah doesn't have a team

[winflop]

According to the NCAA directory there are 267 Division I women's golf programs, compared to 298 for the men. So 90% as many women's teams as men's.  The national tournament differences should be closer to that 90%, I think.

Canalejas, my suspicion is that the smaller size is driven by convenience, not equity. The smaller field allows the NCAA to run only 4 regionals for the women vs. 6 for the men. And it helps to ensure that the women's tournament (which is held the week prior to the men's tournament) finishes on time even with weather delays so as not to disrupt the men's schedule. The NCAA should do better.

Men have six 15-team regionals = 90 teams
Women have four 18-team regionals = 72 teams (80%). My proposal is five 15-team regionals = 75 teams (83%)

Interesting to note that there are only 11 schools in the Pac-12 with women's golf. Utah doesn't have a team

[Spiny_Norman]

Stanford now up to #8 in Golfweek rankings.

More notable is that Rachel Heck is the new #1 ranked collegiate golfer in the country.
https://rankings.golfweek.com/rankings/default.asp?T=wi

[Spiny_Norman]

Stanford now up to #8 in Golfweek rankings.

More notable is that Rachel Heck is the new #1 ranked collegiate golfer in the country.
https://rankings.golfweek.com/rankings/default.asp?T=wi

[fullmetal]

winflop: Thanks for the clarification and the suggestions.  That's pretty fascinating.  I am also a sports official who sometimes works at the collegiate level, so I understand some of the constraints under which your uncle works.  That also means I'm shocked at the lack of an "all-hands" contingency plan for an outdoor sport as everyone who's played an outdoor sport understands that sometimes the conditions do not cooperate.

[fullmetal]

winflop: Thanks for the clarification and the suggestions.  That's pretty fascinating.  I am also a sports official who sometimes works at the collegiate level, so I understand some of the constraints under which your uncle works.  That also means I'm shocked at the lack of an "all-hands" contingency plan for an outdoor sport as everyone who's played an outdoor sport understands that sometimes the conditions do not cooperate.

[winflop]

It's worth noting that this one regional include 14 of the top 50 women's amateur players in the world - about 15 of whom do not play college golf. If you include Aline Krauter who is raked 51st, that's more than 40% (15/36) of the highest-ranked collegiate golfers.

That is an INSANE level of competition that Stanford just laid waste to

They will be the team to beat at nationals.

[winflop]

It's worth noting that this one regional include 14 of the top 50 women's amateur players in the world - about 15 of whom do not play college golf. If you include Aline Krauter who is raked 51st, that's more than 40% (15/36) of the highest-ranked collegiate golfers.

That is an INSANE level of competition that Stanford just laid waste to

They will be the team to beat at nationals.

[winflop]

winflop: Thanks for the clarification and the suggestions.  That's pretty fascinating.  I am also a sports official who sometimes works at the collegiate level, so I understand some of the constraints under which your uncle works.  That also means I'm shocked at the lack of an "all-hands" contingency plan for an outdoor sport as everyone who's played an outdoor sport understands that sometimes the conditions do not cooperate.

So I looked up who's on the NCAA Women's Golf Committee. Half of the six members are college golf coaches. It boggles my mind how these folks could have bungled this so badly.

[winflop]

winflop: Thanks for the clarification and the suggestions.  That's pretty fascinating.  I am also a sports official who sometimes works at the collegiate level, so I understand some of the constraints under which your uncle works.  That also means I'm shocked at the lack of an "all-hands" contingency plan for an outdoor sport as everyone who's played an outdoor sport understands that sometimes the conditions do not cooperate.

So I looked up who's on the NCAA Women's Golf Committee. Half of the six members are college golf coaches. It boggles my mind how these folks could have bungled this so badly.