[lex24]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

[lex24]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

[Giants]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

[Giants]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

[lex24]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both. I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter. Although they should be able to negotiate out the manipulation.

[lex24]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both. I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter. Although they should be able to negotiate out the manipulation.

[Giants]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Plus adding to pool on arb fast track.

The problem with revenue sharing is there are no guidelines.  Owners like Fisher simply put the money in their pocket because there is no incentive to improve their team.  

Of course, I understand eliminating the CBT and revenue sharing are non-starters.  My CBA is nothing more than the opinion of one person. 

By the way, the Yanks and their $5 billion have not done very well recently (particularly relative to the Rays who are near the bottom of the valuation table).

[Giants]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Plus adding to pool on arb fast track.

The problem with revenue sharing is there are no guidelines.  Owners like Fisher simply put the money in their pocket because there is no incentive to improve their team.  

Of course, I understand eliminating the CBT and revenue sharing are non-starters.  My CBA is nothing more than the opinion of one person. 

By the way, the Yanks and their $5 billion have not done very well recently (particularly relative to the Rays who are near the bottom of the valuation table).

[DC 86]

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

The problem with revenue sharing is there are no guidelines.  Owners like Fisher simply put the money in their pocket because there is no incentive to improve their team.  

Indeed. The MLBPA right now has grievances in process against the Athletics, Pirates, Marlins and Rays for simply pocketing revenue sharing payments and continuing to operate with minimal payroll. The Athletics and Rays (especially) have managed to be competitive even with bottom tier payrolls but the overriding issue is that the CBT and revenue sharing has had the intended effect of suppressing salaries with no noticeable effect on competition. Baseball has had more parity than both the NFL and NBA despite those sports having salary caps and more extensive revenue sharing, while baseball parity/competitiveness hasn't materially changed with the implementation of its de facto salary cap and revenue sharing program.

[DC 86]

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

The problem with revenue sharing is there are no guidelines.  Owners like Fisher simply put the money in their pocket because there is no incentive to improve their team.  

Indeed. The MLBPA right now has grievances in process against the Athletics, Pirates, Marlins and Rays for simply pocketing revenue sharing payments and continuing to operate with minimal payroll. The Athletics and Rays (especially) have managed to be competitive even with bottom tier payrolls but the overriding issue is that the CBT and revenue sharing has had the intended effect of suppressing salaries with no noticeable effect on competition. Baseball has had more parity than both the NFL and NBA despite those sports having salary caps and more extensive revenue sharing, while baseball parity/competitiveness hasn't materially changed with the implementation of its de facto salary cap and revenue sharing program.

[Phogge]

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

[Phogge]

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

[old spanish trail]

NBA for a second: Just saw Adam Silver's press conference at the All Star Game site in Cleveland. He is really good, especially in comparison with Manfred, e.g.

[old spanish trail]

NBA for a second: Just saw Adam Silver's press conference at the All Star Game site in Cleveland. He is really good, especially in comparison with Manfred, e.g.

[DC 86]

NBA for a second: Just saw Adam Silver's press conference at the All Star Game site in Cleveland. He is really good, especially in comparison with Manfred, e.g.

Silver is absolutely on an entirely different level compared to Manfred, but he also has the advantage of working for a set of owners who see the big picture and are mostly visionary in how they see the future of the league. Mark Cuban was the high bidder for multiple MLB teams that were for sale but the MLB establishment was afraid that he would be disruptive and would spend too much on players. In the NBA he's been a thorn because of his criticism of officiating but he turned around his franchise and raised the bar for other owners as well.

[DC 86]

NBA for a second: Just saw Adam Silver's press conference at the All Star Game site in Cleveland. He is really good, especially in comparison with Manfred, e.g.

Silver is absolutely on an entirely different level compared to Manfred, but he also has the advantage of working for a set of owners who see the big picture and are mostly visionary in how they see the future of the league. Mark Cuban was the high bidder for multiple MLB teams that were for sale but the MLB establishment was afraid that he would be disruptive and would spend too much on players. In the NBA he's been a thorn because of his criticism of officiating but he turned around his franchise and raised the bar for other owners as well.

[Phogge]

At least none of the owners has been caught in a trashy Florida “massage” parlor...yet.

[Phogge]

At least none of the owners has been caught in a trashy Florida “massage” parlor...yet.

[lex24]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Plus adding to pool on arb fast track.

The problem with revenue sharing is there are no guidelines.  Owners like Fisher simply put the money in their pocket because there is no incentive to improve their team.  

Of course, I understand eliminating the CBT and revenue sharing are non-starters.  My CBA is nothing more than the opinion of one person. 

By the way, the Yanks and their $5 billion have not done very well recently (particularly relative to the Rays who are near the bottom of the valuation table).

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

[lex24]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Plus adding to pool on arb fast track.

The problem with revenue sharing is there are no guidelines.  Owners like Fisher simply put the money in their pocket because there is no incentive to improve their team.  

Of course, I understand eliminating the CBT and revenue sharing are non-starters.  My CBA is nothing more than the opinion of one person. 

By the way, the Yanks and their $5 billion have not done very well recently (particularly relative to the Rays who are near the bottom of the valuation table).

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

[Mick]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation

[Mick]

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation

[DC 86]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

[DC 86]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

[Phogge]

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

[Phogge]

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

[lex24]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th mos valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

---

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Fantastic organization.  Year in, year out.  Always strong.

---

[quote="lex24" pid='345034' dateline='1645291352']
Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation
[/quote

I’ll be surprised if they get more than a third round pick.  No 11 overall?  I’d fire my GM on the spot.

[lex24]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th mos valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

---

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Fantastic organization.  Year in, year out.  Always strong.

---

[quote="lex24" pid='345034' dateline='1645291352']
Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation
[/quote

I’ll be surprised if they get more than a third round pick.  No 11 overall?  I’d fire my GM on the spot.

[DC 86]

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th most valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

This is what I'm trying to say - they are in an area with a relatively low population, small media market, yet they have stable, committed ownership and strong management, leading to consistent contention and a strong fan base. A small market team can consistently contend if they are committed to investing in the team and supporting smart management. Franchises outside of the major markets aren't precluded from being top organizations if they do things right.

The most recent revenue data I found was for 2020. The Cardinals ranked 23rd in estimated revenue among MLB teams. Their annual local TV revenues are approximately a quarter of the Dodgers. However, they rank fourth in MLB in terms of player expenses as a percentage of revenues - they are willing to spend money. They are indeed in the top ten in franchise value as a result of cultivating a loyal fan base while spending to put a consistently competitive team on the field for said fan base, resulting in top-ten attendance despite undoubtably being located in a relatively small market.

[DC 86]

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th most valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

This is what I'm trying to say - they are in an area with a relatively low population, small media market, yet they have stable, committed ownership and strong management, leading to consistent contention and a strong fan base. A small market team can consistently contend if they are committed to investing in the team and supporting smart management. Franchises outside of the major markets aren't precluded from being top organizations if they do things right.

The most recent revenue data I found was for 2020. The Cardinals ranked 23rd in estimated revenue among MLB teams. Their annual local TV revenues are approximately a quarter of the Dodgers. However, they rank fourth in MLB in terms of player expenses as a percentage of revenues - they are willing to spend money. They are indeed in the top ten in franchise value as a result of cultivating a loyal fan base while spending to put a consistently competitive team on the field for said fan base, resulting in top-ten attendance despite undoubtably being located in a relatively small market.

[Mick]

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Makes sense from a World Series point of view.  The Cardinals have 11, most in NL history, three ahead of next-best in NL history, the Giants with 8.  The Giants have the second highest winning percentage in MLB history (.536) against the Yankees (.570) and just ahead of the Dodgers (.529) and the Cardinals (.521).

[Mick]

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Makes sense from a World Series point of view.  The Cardinals have 11, most in NL history, three ahead of next-best in NL history, the Giants with 8.  The Giants have the second highest winning percentage in MLB history (.536) against the Yankees (.570) and just ahead of the Dodgers (.529) and the Cardinals (.521).

[Mick]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th mos valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

---

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Fantastic organization.  Year in, year out.  Always strong.

---

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation

I’ll be surprised if they get more than a third round pick.  No 11 overall?  I’d fire my GM on the spot.

Might be a situation like when Montana got traded in 1993.  Terms were Montana and SS David Whitmore and a third round selection for the Chiefs' 1st round selection, #18 overall.  So if the 49ers actually received a 1st round pick for Garoppolo, they might have to give up another player and/or another pick, maybe one of their 3rd round selections.

Whitmore was a good player, had been a starter the prior year for the 49ers and became a starter for the Chiefs for the next two years.

I suspect it was really important to Montana to be traded for a first round pick and Eddie D. accommodated his wishes, as he so often did.  Like Garoppolo, Montana lost the NFC conference championship in 1990, but unlike Garoppolo, he missed the next two seasons entirely, playing just one game.  And when Joe started for the Chiefs, he was 37. Garoppolo will be 31 next year.

Also, Joe won 72% of his games, and Garoppolo won 69% of his SF games.  The NFL instituted a salary cap in 1994, so Joe played for a team in which a generous Eddie D. surrounded Joe with All-Pros.  Jed had no such luxury.  Just found it interesting.

[Mick]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th mos valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

---

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Fantastic organization.  Year in, year out.  Always strong.

---

Spring training delayed. Highly doubtful season starts on time.  I understand why the Owners locked out - they don’t want another ‘93.  I tend to side more with players on most issues.  But I have no confidence in the leadership.  Particularly Manfred

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation

I’ll be surprised if they get more than a third round pick.  No 11 overall?  I’d fire my GM on the spot.

Might be a situation like when Montana got traded in 1993.  Terms were Montana and SS David Whitmore and a third round selection for the Chiefs' 1st round selection, #18 overall.  So if the 49ers actually received a 1st round pick for Garoppolo, they might have to give up another player and/or another pick, maybe one of their 3rd round selections.

Whitmore was a good player, had been a starter the prior year for the 49ers and became a starter for the Chiefs for the next two years.

I suspect it was really important to Montana to be traded for a first round pick and Eddie D. accommodated his wishes, as he so often did.  Like Garoppolo, Montana lost the NFC conference championship in 1990, but unlike Garoppolo, he missed the next two seasons entirely, playing just one game.  And when Joe started for the Chiefs, he was 37. Garoppolo will be 31 next year.

Also, Joe won 72% of his games, and Garoppolo won 69% of his SF games.  The NFL instituted a salary cap in 1994, so Joe played for a team in which a generous Eddie D. surrounded Joe with All-Pros.  Jed had no such luxury.  Just found it interesting.

[lex24]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th mos valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

---

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Fantastic organization.  Year in, year out.  Always strong.

---

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation

I’ll be surprised if they get more than a third round pick.  No 11 overall?  I’d fire my GM on the spot.

Might be a situation like when Montana got traded in 1993.  Terms were Montana and SS David Whitmore and a third round selection for the Chiefs' 1st round selection, #18 overall.  So if the 49ers actually received a 1st round pick for Garoppolo, they might have to give up another player and/or another pick, maybe one of their 3rd round selections.

Whitmore was a good player, had been a starter the prior year for the 49ers and became a starter for the Chiefs for the next two years.

I suspect it was really important to Montana to be traded for a first round pick and Eddie D. accommodated his wishes, as he so often did.  Like Garoppolo, Montana lost the NFC conference championship in 1990, but unlike Garoppolo, he missed the next two seasons entirely, playing just one game.  And when Joe started for the Chiefs, he was 37.  Garoppolo will be 31 next year.

Also, Joe won 72% of his games, and Garoppolo won 69% of his SF games.  The NFL instituted a salary cap in 1994, so Joe played for a team in which a generous Eddie D. surrounded Joe with All-Pros.  Jed had no such luxury.  Just found it interesting.

Comparing Garrapolo to Montana is like comparing Plunkett to Hogan. One is an all time great, the other a nice game manager. Although in my analogy Hogan is much better than Garrapolo.

JG won when the stars lined up.  When the defense was dominant and they could run the ball.  Look at his playoffs numbers. Pedestrian is an overstatement.  In 2019 he threw 27 passes in the two playoffs games. 6-8 in NFC Championship.  And we all know what happened in 4th Q of SB.  

This year, he played mediocre at best  in all three games. Niners got to championship game in spite of him.  Not because of him. Almost blew Cowboy game with an awful pick.  Did nothing against GB - a game they won cause they blocked a FG and a punt and the defense shined. He should have thrown 2 pick six’s. But they were dropped 

Rams game he was mediocre.  Until 4th Q. Than he was just bad.   Everyone remembers the Tartt drop.  But Ramsey had  a pick 6 that he dropped. Then he “engineered “ two of the worst last minute “drives” I’ve seen. 

Add that he’s hurt half the time and his value sinks further.

Great teammate.  Handled a rough situation well. But he’s very limited. Not accurate downfield.  Average at best arm strength.  Not particularly strong pocket presence. Can’t run.  And he can’t throw on the run at all.  He is not worth close to a first round pick. Kawakami has him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder that can be a conditional second depending on certain markers.  Sounds more like it to me.

[lex24]

The Rays do a remarkable job.  But they are the outlier. As for the owners playing games with revenue sharing, I get ya.  But that’s not going to stop either.  Players have to realize they don’t have the leverage the owners do.   But they still can make significant gains.  It’s time to drop demands they have no chance on.  Focus on the incremental gains they can achieve.

The Rays are the most extreme outlier, but the Royals, Guardians and Cardinals are all smaller market teams that have also reached the World Series in the last decade.

The MLBPA have already dropped all the demands that were non-starters and have focused on incremental gains, but owners have been fairly intransigent, essentially every PA proposal in one area has been met with a counterproposal requiring much greater concessions from the players in another area.

I don’t consider Cardinals small market.  They are 7th mos valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes.  They also draw throughout Midwest.  

I also  think the Cardinals are one of the best run organizations in all of sports. They are always contending.

---

The Cardinals have managed to stay the second most successful organization in MLB history.

Fantastic organization.  Year in, year out.  Always strong.

---

I agree.  Leadership is sorely lacking…..

IMO, the CBA should include: 

1) A significantly increased minimum salary and the establishment of a means to reward players for exceptional performance prior to their third year.
2) Arbitration after the third year
3) No revenue sharing between clubs
4) Establishment of a payroll floor 
5) Elimination of the CBT payroll ceiling

Yeah, I guess I am in the players camp this time….

If an owner doesn’t like the new rules, he can sell his interests for a tidy profit to someone else.

Eliminating the CBT ceiling and ending revenue sharing are non starters. It would kill about 20 teams. Yankees are worth 5 Billion plus. Marlins 900 million.  Too large a disparity. Both the tax and the sharing help create competition.  Which is good for everyone.  

Agree on the floor, raising minimum and changing some of the rules relating to team control. Whether thru reducing years to arb or FA . Or both.  I think reducing the 6 to FA is also a non starter.  Although they should be able  to negotiate out the manipulation.

+1.  I think this is the way to go, and what should ultimately happen.

---

Basically f*** all the players and all the owners.

Honestly, I felt that since 1981 when I stopped really giving a darn.  Still a fan, but arm's-length now.  Pox on both houses...

BTW, my wife's college roommate was the daughter of a locally famous major league sports team.  Such a horrible experience, my wife ended up transferring to Santa Clara.

---

My son let me know that the big rumor he's hearing is Washington offering a 1st rounder (next year's 11th overall selection) for Garoppolo...

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootbal...ron-rivera

This guy thinks it's silly...
https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/jim...commanders

here are the pros and cons
https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday....olo-49ers/

If Rodgers and Wilson aren't traded in the off-season, Garropolo is the hot commodity among quarterbacks:
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/...eter-king/

An anonymous NFL exec essentially states that it wouldn't be "worth it" but it would be "justifiable":
https://www.knbr.com/2022/02/14/executiv...garoppolo/

This guy thinks Rodgers, Wilson, Carr and Watson are the only quarterbacks worth a first-rounder (and the first three are likely to return to their teams):
https://riggosrag.com/2022/02/15/nfl-exe...ade-value/

Fan reaction -- and basically, there's no better quarterbacks available in the draft or in trade:
https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/washing...peculation

I’ll be surprised if they get more than a third round pick.  No 11 overall?  I’d fire my GM on the spot.

Might be a situation like when Montana got traded in 1993.  Terms were Montana and SS David Whitmore and a third round selection for the Chiefs' 1st round selection, #18 overall.  So if the 49ers actually received a 1st round pick for Garoppolo, they might have to give up another player and/or another pick, maybe one of their 3rd round selections.

Whitmore was a good player, had been a starter the prior year for the 49ers and became a starter for the Chiefs for the next two years.

I suspect it was really important to Montana to be traded for a first round pick and Eddie D. accommodated his wishes, as he so often did.  Like Garoppolo, Montana lost the NFC conference championship in 1990, but unlike Garoppolo, he missed the next two seasons entirely, playing just one game.  And when Joe started for the Chiefs, he was 37.  Garoppolo will be 31 next year.

Also, Joe won 72% of his games, and Garoppolo won 69% of his SF games.  The NFL instituted a salary cap in 1994, so Joe played for a team in which a generous Eddie D. surrounded Joe with All-Pros.  Jed had no such luxury.  Just found it interesting.

Comparing Garrapolo to Montana is like comparing Plunkett to Hogan. One is an all time great, the other a nice game manager. Although in my analogy Hogan is much better than Garrapolo.

JG won when the stars lined up.  When the defense was dominant and they could run the ball.  Look at his playoffs numbers. Pedestrian is an overstatement.  In 2019 he threw 27 passes in the two playoffs games. 6-8 in NFC Championship.  And we all know what happened in 4th Q of SB.  

This year, he played mediocre at best  in all three games. Niners got to championship game in spite of him.  Not because of him. Almost blew Cowboy game with an awful pick.  Did nothing against GB - a game they won cause they blocked a FG and a punt and the defense shined. He should have thrown 2 pick six’s. But they were dropped 

Rams game he was mediocre.  Until 4th Q. Than he was just bad.   Everyone remembers the Tartt drop.  But Ramsey had  a pick 6 that he dropped. Then he “engineered “ two of the worst last minute “drives” I’ve seen. 

Add that he’s hurt half the time and his value sinks further.

Great teammate.  Handled a rough situation well. But he’s very limited. Not accurate downfield.  Average at best arm strength.  Not particularly strong pocket presence. Can’t run.  And he can’t throw on the run at all.  He is not worth close to a first round pick. Kawakami has him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder that can be a conditional second depending on certain markers.  Sounds more like it to me.

[Mick]

Comparing Garrapolo to Montana is like comparing Plunkett to Hogan. One is an all time great, the other a nice game manager. Although in my analogy Hogan is much better than Garrapolo.

JG won when the stars lined up.  When the defense was dominant and they could run the ball.  Look at his playoffs numbers. Pedestrian is an overstatement.  In 2019 he threw 27 passes in the two playoffs games. 6-8 in NFC Championship.  And we all know what happened in 4th Q of SB. 

This year, he played mediocre at best  in all three games. Niners got to championship game in spite of him.  Not because of him. Almost blew Cowboy game with an awful pick.  Did nothing against GB - a game they won cause they blocked a FG and a punt and the defense shined. He should have thrown 2 pick six’s. But they were dropped 

Rams game he was mediocre.  Until 4th Q. Than he was just bad.   Everyone remembers the Tartt drop.  But Ramsey had  a pick 6 that he dropped. Then he “engineered “ two of the worst last minute “drives” I’ve seen. 

Add that he’s hurt half the time and his value sinks further.

Great teammate.  Handled a rough situation well. But he’s very limited. Not accurate downfield.  Average at best arm strength.  Not particularly strong pocket presence. Can’t run.  And he can’t throw on the run at all.  He is not worth close to a first round pick. Kawakami has him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder that can be a conditional second depending on certain markers.  Sounds more like it to me.

Per pro football reference, Montana started 66.8% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  Garoppolo started 65.2% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  And of course, he had a thumb injury and a shoulder injury, both on his throwing arm, one of which will require off-season surgery.  He will be in much better condition for the 2022 regular season than he was for the 2021 playoffs  So I don't know that the injury factor segments Garoppolo that much.

I think Kawakami had him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder and a pick in the second year that could be anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th rounder.  So two picks.  Ian Rappoport said the same thing, probably a second round pick.  There's up to eight teams that will be seeking a quarterback, and Garropolo is a good Top Ten quarterback (# in passer rating among starters), though not a Top Five quarterback.  The other QB options aren't as attractive.

https://ninernoise.com/2022/02/02/jimmy-...get-trade/

[Mick]

Comparing Garrapolo to Montana is like comparing Plunkett to Hogan. One is an all time great, the other a nice game manager. Although in my analogy Hogan is much better than Garrapolo.

JG won when the stars lined up.  When the defense was dominant and they could run the ball.  Look at his playoffs numbers. Pedestrian is an overstatement.  In 2019 he threw 27 passes in the two playoffs games. 6-8 in NFC Championship.  And we all know what happened in 4th Q of SB. 

This year, he played mediocre at best  in all three games. Niners got to championship game in spite of him.  Not because of him. Almost blew Cowboy game with an awful pick.  Did nothing against GB - a game they won cause they blocked a FG and a punt and the defense shined. He should have thrown 2 pick six’s. But they were dropped 

Rams game he was mediocre.  Until 4th Q. Than he was just bad.   Everyone remembers the Tartt drop.  But Ramsey had  a pick 6 that he dropped. Then he “engineered “ two of the worst last minute “drives” I’ve seen. 

Add that he’s hurt half the time and his value sinks further.

Great teammate.  Handled a rough situation well. But he’s very limited. Not accurate downfield.  Average at best arm strength.  Not particularly strong pocket presence. Can’t run.  And he can’t throw on the run at all.  He is not worth close to a first round pick. Kawakami has him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder that can be a conditional second depending on certain markers.  Sounds more like it to me.

Per pro football reference, Montana started 66.8% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  Garoppolo started 65.2% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  And of course, he had a thumb injury and a shoulder injury, both on his throwing arm, one of which will require off-season surgery.  He will be in much better condition for the 2022 regular season than he was for the 2021 playoffs  So I don't know that the injury factor segments Garoppolo that much.

I think Kawakami had him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder and a pick in the second year that could be anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th rounder.  So two picks.  Ian Rappoport said the same thing, probably a second round pick.  There's up to eight teams that will be seeking a quarterback, and Garropolo is a good Top Ten quarterback (# in passer rating among starters), though not a Top Five quarterback.  The other QB options aren't as attractive.

https://ninernoise.com/2022/02/02/jimmy-...get-trade/

[lex24]

Comparing Garrapolo to Montana is like comparing Plunkett to Hogan. One is an all time great, the other a nice game manager. Although in my analogy Hogan is much better than Garrapolo.

JG won when the stars lined up.  When the defense was dominant and they could run the ball.  Look at his playoffs numbers. Pedestrian is an overstatement.  In 2019 he threw 27 passes in the two playoffs games. 6-8 in NFC Championship.  And we all know what happened in 4th Q of SB. 

This year, he played mediocre at best  in all three games. Niners got to championship game in spite of him.  Not because of him. Almost blew Cowboy game with an awful pick.  Did nothing against GB - a game they won cause they blocked a FG and a punt and the defense shined. He should have thrown 2 pick six’s. But they were dropped 

Rams game he was mediocre.  Until 4th Q. Than he was just bad.   Everyone remembers the Tartt drop.  But Ramsey had  a pick 6 that he dropped. Then he “engineered “ two of the worst last minute “drives” I’ve seen. 

Add that he’s hurt half the time and his value sinks further.

Great teammate.  Handled a rough situation well. But he’s very limited. Not accurate downfield.  Average at best arm strength.  Not particularly strong pocket presence. Can’t run.  And he can’t throw on the run at all.  He is not worth close to a first round pick. Kawakami has him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder that can be a conditional second depending on certain markers.  Sounds more like it to me.

Per pro football reference, Montana started 66.8% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  Garoppolo started 65.2% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  And of course, he had a thumb injury and a shoulder injury, both on his throwing arm, one of which will require off-season surgery.  He will be in much better condition for the 2022 regular season than he was for the 2021 playoffs  So I don't know that the injury factor segments Garoppolo that much.

I think Kawakami had him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder and a pick in the second year that could be anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th rounder.  So two picks.  Ian Rappoport said the same thing, probably a second round pick.  There's up to eight teams that will be seeking a quarterback, and Garropolo is a good Top Ten quarterback (# in passer rating among starters), though not a Top Five quarterback.  The other QB options aren't as attractive.

https://ninernoise.com/2022/02/02/jimmy-...get-trade/

Garrapolo  is not a 10 ten QB. And I don’t care about any numbers that relate to Montana and Garrapolo, there is no comparison.  You are right on Kawakami.  Although I think he posited that the second pick would be the next yeat

[lex24]

Comparing Garrapolo to Montana is like comparing Plunkett to Hogan. One is an all time great, the other a nice game manager. Although in my analogy Hogan is much better than Garrapolo.

JG won when the stars lined up.  When the defense was dominant and they could run the ball.  Look at his playoffs numbers. Pedestrian is an overstatement.  In 2019 he threw 27 passes in the two playoffs games. 6-8 in NFC Championship.  And we all know what happened in 4th Q of SB. 

This year, he played mediocre at best  in all three games. Niners got to championship game in spite of him.  Not because of him. Almost blew Cowboy game with an awful pick.  Did nothing against GB - a game they won cause they blocked a FG and a punt and the defense shined. He should have thrown 2 pick six’s. But they were dropped 

Rams game he was mediocre.  Until 4th Q. Than he was just bad.   Everyone remembers the Tartt drop.  But Ramsey had  a pick 6 that he dropped. Then he “engineered “ two of the worst last minute “drives” I’ve seen. 

Add that he’s hurt half the time and his value sinks further.

Great teammate.  Handled a rough situation well. But he’s very limited. Not accurate downfield.  Average at best arm strength.  Not particularly strong pocket presence. Can’t run.  And he can’t throw on the run at all.  He is not worth close to a first round pick. Kawakami has him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder that can be a conditional second depending on certain markers.  Sounds more like it to me.

Per pro football reference, Montana started 66.8% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  Garoppolo started 65.2% of the games he was on the 49ers roster.  And of course, he had a thumb injury and a shoulder injury, both on his throwing arm, one of which will require off-season surgery.  He will be in much better condition for the 2022 regular season than he was for the 2021 playoffs  So I don't know that the injury factor segments Garoppolo that much.

I think Kawakami had him going to Pitt for a 4th rounder and a pick in the second year that could be anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th rounder.  So two picks.  Ian Rappoport said the same thing, probably a second round pick.  There's up to eight teams that will be seeking a quarterback, and Garropolo is a good Top Ten quarterback (# in passer rating among starters), though not a Top Five quarterback.  The other QB options aren't as attractive.

https://ninernoise.com/2022/02/02/jimmy-...get-trade/

Garrapolo  is not a 10 ten QB. And I don’t care about any numbers that relate to Montana and Garrapolo, there is no comparison.  You are right on Kawakami.  Although I think he posited that the second pick would be the next yeat