[81alum]

Although it is unclear whether Russia might have targeted Griner for being an American or saw her detention as a useful bargaining tool with Washington, one Democratic member of Congress depicted her case that way on Saturday.

“This follows a pattern of Russia wrongly detaining & imprisoning US citizens, including Trevor Reed,” the lawmaker, Representative Joaquin Castro of Texas, wrote on Twitter. “US citizens are not political pawns. Brittney, Trevor, and other Americans must be safely returned.”


In 2020, a court in Moscow sentenced Reed, a former U.S. Marine, to nine years in prison on charges of assaulting and endangering the lives of two police officers, accusations that his family and supporters say are fraudulent and politically motivated.


Earlier the same year, another former Marine, Paul Whelan, was sentenced to 16 years in prison on espionage charges during a trial that was closed to the public.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sport...riner.html

[81alum]

Although it is unclear whether Russia might have targeted Griner for being an American or saw her detention as a useful bargaining tool with Washington, one Democratic member of Congress depicted her case that way on Saturday.

“This follows a pattern of Russia wrongly detaining & imprisoning US citizens, including Trevor Reed,” the lawmaker, Representative Joaquin Castro of Texas, wrote on Twitter. “US citizens are not political pawns. Brittney, Trevor, and other Americans must be safely returned.”


In 2020, a court in Moscow sentenced Reed, a former U.S. Marine, to nine years in prison on charges of assaulting and endangering the lives of two police officers, accusations that his family and supporters say are fraudulent and politically motivated.


Earlier the same year, another former Marine, Paul Whelan, was sentenced to 16 years in prison on espionage charges during a trial that was closed to the public.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sport...riner.html

[Mick]

It's been a few weeks since her detention, I heard, so quiet negotiations have likely not borne fruit.  She may be a political pawn now.  And I would guess that she may not actually have had any vape cartridges in her possession.  Planting evidence is a time-(dis)honored tactic.

this is what i've been thinking.

+1.  I'd be much more shocked if it wasn't planted.

So Putin, knowing that he would invade Ukraine at some point in the future, and knowing that the U.S. would lead global condemnation of same, gave the order to place drugs in U.S. player's possessions, as a pawn in future negotiations about . . . withdrawal from Ukraine?  Germany Nord deal?  Um, THRIFT reinstatement?

It's possible - with Putin anything is.  

But you'd be "shocked" if it weren't?  I dunno, that seems like a stretch.

Yes, I'd be shocked.  Professional athlete, foreign country -- a particularly dangerous foreign country.  Dictator who assassinates people, steals elections, marches into foreign country, former KGB...yes, I'd be "shocked" if Griner was on drugs, and shocked if the Soviets didn't plant it.

BTW, the charges against Griner are large-scale distribution of drugs.  She was found with a small amount of hash oil in a vape pen.

[Mick]

It's been a few weeks since her detention, I heard, so quiet negotiations have likely not borne fruit.  She may be a political pawn now.  And I would guess that she may not actually have had any vape cartridges in her possession.  Planting evidence is a time-(dis)honored tactic.

this is what i've been thinking.

+1.  I'd be much more shocked if it wasn't planted.

So Putin, knowing that he would invade Ukraine at some point in the future, and knowing that the U.S. would lead global condemnation of same, gave the order to place drugs in U.S. player's possessions, as a pawn in future negotiations about . . . withdrawal from Ukraine?  Germany Nord deal?  Um, THRIFT reinstatement?

It's possible - with Putin anything is.  

But you'd be "shocked" if it weren't?  I dunno, that seems like a stretch.

Yes, I'd be shocked.  Professional athlete, foreign country -- a particularly dangerous foreign country.  Dictator who assassinates people, steals elections, marches into foreign country, former KGB...yes, I'd be "shocked" if Griner was on drugs, and shocked if the Soviets didn't plant it.

BTW, the charges against Griner are large-scale distribution of drugs.  She was found with a small amount of hash oil in a vape pen.

[Phogge]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

In my line of work I have to admire the extent and bravery of some of the reporters and crews covering the action in the Ukraine. The correspondents get the glory, the crews the grunt work amid the danger.

[Phogge]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

In my line of work I have to admire the extent and bravery of some of the reporters and crews covering the action in the Ukraine. The correspondents get the glory, the crews the grunt work amid the danger.

[teejers1]

It's been a few weeks since her detention, I heard, so quiet negotiations have likely not borne fruit.  She may be a political pawn now.  And I would guess that she may not actually have had any vape cartridges in her possession.  Planting evidence is a time-(dis)honored tactic.

this is what i've been thinking.

+1.  I'd be much more shocked if it wasn't planted.

So Putin, knowing that he would invade Ukraine at some point in the future, and knowing that the U.S. would lead global condemnation of same, gave the order to place drugs in U.S. player's possessions, as a pawn in future negotiations about . . . withdrawal from Ukraine?  Germany Nord deal?  Um, THRIFT reinstatement?

It's possible - with Putin anything is.  

But you'd be "shocked" if it weren't?  I dunno, that seems like a stretch.

Yes, I'd be shocked.  Professional athlete, foreign country -- a particularly dangerous foreign country.  Dictator who assassinates people, steals elections, marches into foreign country, former KGB...yes, I'd be "shocked" if Griner was on drugs, and shocked if the Soviets didn't plant it.

BTW, the charges against Griner are large-scale distribution of drugs.  She was found with a small amount of hash oil in a vape pen.

So pretty much every American foreign athlete in Russia is subject to planting of drugs . . . to point of expecting it?
Look, you could be right, but if this is SOP of Russian government then I would think they'd have a hard time attracting foreign talent.
Kind of self-defeating practice.

Now, overcharging for crimes, that's a slightly different animal and more likely.  But that happens here, too (though perhaps not on same scale).

[teejers1]

It's been a few weeks since her detention, I heard, so quiet negotiations have likely not borne fruit.  She may be a political pawn now.  And I would guess that she may not actually have had any vape cartridges in her possession.  Planting evidence is a time-(dis)honored tactic.

this is what i've been thinking.

+1.  I'd be much more shocked if it wasn't planted.

So Putin, knowing that he would invade Ukraine at some point in the future, and knowing that the U.S. would lead global condemnation of same, gave the order to place drugs in U.S. player's possessions, as a pawn in future negotiations about . . . withdrawal from Ukraine?  Germany Nord deal?  Um, THRIFT reinstatement?

It's possible - with Putin anything is.  

But you'd be "shocked" if it weren't?  I dunno, that seems like a stretch.

Yes, I'd be shocked.  Professional athlete, foreign country -- a particularly dangerous foreign country.  Dictator who assassinates people, steals elections, marches into foreign country, former KGB...yes, I'd be "shocked" if Griner was on drugs, and shocked if the Soviets didn't plant it.

BTW, the charges against Griner are large-scale distribution of drugs.  She was found with a small amount of hash oil in a vape pen.

So pretty much every American foreign athlete in Russia is subject to planting of drugs . . . to point of expecting it?
Look, you could be right, but if this is SOP of Russian government then I would think they'd have a hard time attracting foreign talent.
Kind of self-defeating practice.

Now, overcharging for crimes, that's a slightly different animal and more likely.  But that happens here, too (though perhaps not on same scale).

[BostonCard]

One other consideration is that Griner is gay, and Russia has some of the most homophobic policies in the world.

https://freedomhouse.org/article/dismant...rol-russia

No way of knowing if her detention was related; it depends on how mucha of her personal life was known to the customs officials who detained her.

BC

[BostonCard]

One other consideration is that Griner is gay, and Russia has some of the most homophobic policies in the world.

https://freedomhouse.org/article/dismant...rol-russia

No way of knowing if her detention was related; it depends on how mucha of her personal life was known to the customs officials who detained her.

BC

[Goose]

So pretty much every American foreign athlete in Russia is subject to planting of drugs . . . to point of expecting it?

Look, you could be right, but if this is SOP of Russian government then I would think they'd have a hard time attracting foreign talent.

Kind of self-defeating practice.



Now, overcharging for crimes, that's a slightly different animal and more likely.  But that happens here, too (though perhaps not on same scale).

The simple fact is that there is a non-zero probability that ANYBODY from any nation who visits Russia can get arrested and detained for no good reason. How often it happens depends on where you are, who you are, and the luck of the draw. Doesn't have to make sense to us, or to anybody but the Russians involved. Autocracies make their own rules, and even they are never sure exactly what they are. Visit at your own risk. YMMV.

[Goose]

So pretty much every American foreign athlete in Russia is subject to planting of drugs . . . to point of expecting it?

Look, you could be right, but if this is SOP of Russian government then I would think they'd have a hard time attracting foreign talent.

Kind of self-defeating practice.



Now, overcharging for crimes, that's a slightly different animal and more likely.  But that happens here, too (though perhaps not on same scale).

The simple fact is that there is a non-zero probability that ANYBODY from any nation who visits Russia can get arrested and detained for no good reason. How often it happens depends on where you are, who you are, and the luck of the draw. Doesn't have to make sense to us, or to anybody but the Russians involved. Autocracies make their own rules, and even they are never sure exactly what they are. Visit at your own risk. YMMV.

[Mick]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

A decade ago, I opened three offices in Mexico, including one in Monterrey.  I was told that I literally couldn't cross the street to Starbucks without an accompanying guard, and I was strongly advised against straying from the hotel, and I shouldn't use the taxis in any event -- just the hotel driver.  As it turns out, Monterrey is a comparatively wealthy area, with lots of American companies, and this attracted the drug dealers.

Not too much terrible happened...except when I left the hotel at 4:30 a.m. to get to a 6:30 a.m. flight at the (very nice) Monterrey airport.  When my driver and I went through a tunnel in the mountains, we were stopped at a check point with (I counted) 56 federales y milizia.  Most wore bandanas covering their faces, about 2/3rds had machine guns.  The federale in charge spoke to the driver, who kept referring to me as an Americano.  I had to surrender my CDL and passport for extensive review.  Finally they let me go, and I have...never...been...back.

[Mick]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

A decade ago, I opened three offices in Mexico, including one in Monterrey.  I was told that I literally couldn't cross the street to Starbucks without an accompanying guard, and I was strongly advised against straying from the hotel, and I shouldn't use the taxis in any event -- just the hotel driver.  As it turns out, Monterrey is a comparatively wealthy area, with lots of American companies, and this attracted the drug dealers.

Not too much terrible happened...except when I left the hotel at 4:30 a.m. to get to a 6:30 a.m. flight at the (very nice) Monterrey airport.  When my driver and I went through a tunnel in the mountains, we were stopped at a check point with (I counted) 56 federales y milizia.  Most wore bandanas covering their faces, about 2/3rds had machine guns.  The federale in charge spoke to the driver, who kept referring to me as an Americano.  I had to surrender my CDL and passport for extensive review.  Finally they let me go, and I have...never...been...back.

[DC 86]

 I'd be "shocked" if Griner was on drugs, and shocked if the Soviets didn't plant it.

Al Harrington has estimated that 85% of NBA players regularly use cannabis, while various NFL players have estimated the same rate in their league. Both the NBA and NFL have stopped testing for THC since use is so widespread. I would be surprised if the WNBA was dramatically different from those leagues, and my experience with drug users is that they don't go cold turkey for months at a time just because they are in another country. Combined with her history of erratic behavior I assume that the vape cartridge was hers. Regardless, the trumped up charges are ridiculous and she has unfortunately fallen into a political situation not of her doing.

[DC 86]

 I'd be "shocked" if Griner was on drugs, and shocked if the Soviets didn't plant it.

Al Harrington has estimated that 85% of NBA players regularly use cannabis, while various NFL players have estimated the same rate in their league. Both the NBA and NFL have stopped testing for THC since use is so widespread. I would be surprised if the WNBA was dramatically different from those leagues, and my experience with drug users is that they don't go cold turkey for months at a time just because they are in another country. Combined with her history of erratic behavior I assume that the vape cartridge was hers. Regardless, the trumped up charges are ridiculous and she has unfortunately fallen into a political situation not of her doing.

[OutsiderFan]

This is quite interesting from a social experiment standpoint. It also suggests to me that Griner "doesn't rate" in terms of her "value" to America, and Russia made some wrong assumptions (imagine that) if it thought she could be a political pawn. Of course now, to get out of Russia, she'd probably have to be driven to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, or Finland, or some Asian border country - if even possible - due to Russian aircraft being banned from so many countries and vice-versa.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1500957803598471169[/tweet]

[OutsiderFan]

This is quite interesting from a social experiment standpoint. It also suggests to me that Griner "doesn't rate" in terms of her "value" to America, and Russia made some wrong assumptions (imagine that) if it thought she could be a political pawn. Of course now, to get out of Russia, she'd probably have to be driven to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, or Finland, or some Asian border country - if even possible - due to Russian aircraft being banned from so many countries and vice-versa.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1500957803598471169[/tweet]

[Phogge]

Once KGB always KGB.

[Phogge]

Once KGB always KGB.

[M T]

I was a non-fan of Brittney Griner.   But, the saying "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy" comes to mind.  Whether she was responsible for what they say was found, doesn't matter right now to me.  I hope she gets out soon. I can't imagine she will again set foot in Russia (which might limit who she plays for in Europe).

If it is true that she was arrested 3 weeks before an announcement was made, I'm surprised we didn't hear about her being missing sooner.  Surely friends, family, & teammates knew, but kept it quiet. The last game she played in was January 29 in Russia. The Russian team she plays for had its most recent game on Feb. 23 (in Russia), so I'd have to believe the arrest was Feb. 22 or earlier. (She didn't play in the previous game either on Feb. 1 in Spain vs Perfumerias Avenida with a couple of players you might know.   Recognize #44 in this image?)  On her team & playing in the Feb. 23 game was Jonquel Jones and Courtney Vandersloot.   (FIBA has banned the Russian teams because of the conflict.  Her team was 14-0 and was to play in the quarter finals this week.  Instead Avenidas is now top seed at 11-3.  You can see a couple of Samuelson sisters play together Wednesday at 11:30AM PST.)

She's been playing in Russia for years so she must know the routine.

[M T]

I was a non-fan of Brittney Griner.   But, the saying "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy" comes to mind.  Whether she was responsible for what they say was found, doesn't matter right now to me.  I hope she gets out soon. I can't imagine she will again set foot in Russia (which might limit who she plays for in Europe).

If it is true that she was arrested 3 weeks before an announcement was made, I'm surprised we didn't hear about her being missing sooner.  Surely friends, family, & teammates knew, but kept it quiet. The last game she played in was January 29 in Russia. The Russian team she plays for had its most recent game on Feb. 23 (in Russia), so I'd have to believe the arrest was Feb. 22 or earlier. (She didn't play in the previous game either on Feb. 1 in Spain vs Perfumerias Avenida with a couple of players you might know.   Recognize #44 in this image?)  On her team & playing in the Feb. 23 game was Jonquel Jones and Courtney Vandersloot.   (FIBA has banned the Russian teams because of the conflict.  Her team was 14-0 and was to play in the quarter finals this week.  Instead Avenidas is now top seed at 11-3.  You can see a couple of Samuelson sisters play together Wednesday at 11:30AM PST.)

She's been playing in Russia for years so she must know the routine.

[DC 86]

The last game she played in was January 29 in Russia.  The Russian team she plays for had its most recent game on Feb. 23 (in Russia), so I'd have to believe the arrest was Feb. 22 or earlier.

Her last social media post was on February 5 so presumably her arrest took place shortly thereafter.

[DC 86]

The last game she played in was January 29 in Russia.  The Russian team she plays for had its most recent game on Feb. 23 (in Russia), so I'd have to believe the arrest was Feb. 22 or earlier.

Her last social media post was on February 5 so presumably her arrest took place shortly thereafter.

[DaBears17]

Here is the video the Russians released:
twitter video

[DaBears17]

Here is the video the Russians released:
twitter video

[Softball Fan]

There's no way to tell what might have been going on in the background of that video.  But just from a straight-forward watching of it I get the feeling not every Russian citizen is out to destroy the evil American.  Who knows?  Some day maybe the real story will come out.  I just hope someone from the U.S. can find a way to get the eventual sentence reduced or bribe her out of jail.

[Softball Fan]

There's no way to tell what might have been going on in the background of that video.  But just from a straight-forward watching of it I get the feeling not every Russian citizen is out to destroy the evil American.  Who knows?  Some day maybe the real story will come out.  I just hope someone from the U.S. can find a way to get the eventual sentence reduced or bribe her out of jail.

[Madera86]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

A decade ago, I opened three offices in Mexico, including one in Monterrey.  I was told that I literally couldn't cross the street to Starbucks without an accompanying guard, and I was strongly advised against straying from the hotel, and I shouldn't use the taxis in any event -- just the hotel driver.  As it turns out, Monterrey is a comparatively wealthy area, with lots of American companies, and this attracted the drug dealers.

Not too much terrible happened...except when I left the hotel at 4:30 a.m. to get to a 6:30 a.m. flight at the (very nice) Monterrey airport.  When my driver and I went through a tunnel in the mountains, we were stopped at a check point with (I counted) 56 federales y milizia.  Most wore bandanas covering their faces, about 2/3rds had machine guns.  The federale in charge spoke to the driver, who kept referring to me as an Americano.  I had to surrender my CDL and passport for extensive review.  Finally they let me go, and I have...never...been...back.

Did you ask them to show you their badges?



Sorry. Thought I'd lighten the mood a bit.

[Madera86]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

A decade ago, I opened three offices in Mexico, including one in Monterrey.  I was told that I literally couldn't cross the street to Starbucks without an accompanying guard, and I was strongly advised against straying from the hotel, and I shouldn't use the taxis in any event -- just the hotel driver.  As it turns out, Monterrey is a comparatively wealthy area, with lots of American companies, and this attracted the drug dealers.

Not too much terrible happened...except when I left the hotel at 4:30 a.m. to get to a 6:30 a.m. flight at the (very nice) Monterrey airport.  When my driver and I went through a tunnel in the mountains, we were stopped at a check point with (I counted) 56 federales y milizia.  Most wore bandanas covering their faces, about 2/3rds had machine guns.  The federale in charge spoke to the driver, who kept referring to me as an Americano.  I had to surrender my CDL and passport for extensive review.  Finally they let me go, and I have...never...been...back.

Did you ask them to show you their badges?



Sorry. Thought I'd lighten the mood a bit.

[pefloresjr]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

A decade ago, I opened three offices in Mexico, including one in Monterrey.  I was told that I literally couldn't cross the street to Starbucks without an accompanying guard, and I was strongly advised against straying from the hotel, and I shouldn't use the taxis in any event -- just the hotel driver.  As it turns out, Monterrey is a comparatively wealthy area, with lots of American companies, and this attracted the drug dealers.

Not too much terrible happened...except when I left the hotel at 4:30 a.m. to get to a 6:30 a.m. flight at the (very nice) Monterrey airport.  When my driver and I went through a tunnel in the mountains, we were stopped at a check point with (I counted) 56 federales y milizia.  Most wore bandanas covering their faces, about 2/3rds had machine guns.  The federale in charge spoke to the driver, who kept referring to me as an Americano.  I had to surrender my CDL and passport for extensive review.  Finally they let me go, and I have...never...been...back.

While travelling in countries where shakedowns are likely, my wife and I have started carrying $50 in our passports.  (US or the local currency if US isn't widely used.)  That way, we don't have to offer a bribe and they don't have to ask.  The money is just in there and if they want to take it, they can.  If they ask, we say it is just there for safekeeping.  Worked well in Mexico and in Guatemala.  The money was only taken once over multiple visits to each country.  It never became an issue in Russia over the three weeks we were there in 2004.  We did see Russian citizens and business owners being shaken down but not foreign tourists.  In Siberia, we saw several occasions where an armed, uniformed soldier entered the restaurant or bar we were in and we noticed the staff's faces go blank.  Not scared or angry, blank.  Then the owner would go outside the restaurant and hand the soldier something.  Everything returned to normal after the owner returned.  
Returning to Griner, I hope that she doesn't get caught up as a hostage and is able to return home soon.  On our trip we did have to work through some Russian bureaucracy on a minor issue and it was next to impossible.  I can't imagine how it would feel to be caught up in the Russian justice system as a pawn in world politics.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[pefloresjr]

Got to be careful where you travel. Certain parts of Mexico included.

A decade ago, I opened three offices in Mexico, including one in Monterrey.  I was told that I literally couldn't cross the street to Starbucks without an accompanying guard, and I was strongly advised against straying from the hotel, and I shouldn't use the taxis in any event -- just the hotel driver.  As it turns out, Monterrey is a comparatively wealthy area, with lots of American companies, and this attracted the drug dealers.

Not too much terrible happened...except when I left the hotel at 4:30 a.m. to get to a 6:30 a.m. flight at the (very nice) Monterrey airport.  When my driver and I went through a tunnel in the mountains, we were stopped at a check point with (I counted) 56 federales y milizia.  Most wore bandanas covering their faces, about 2/3rds had machine guns.  The federale in charge spoke to the driver, who kept referring to me as an Americano.  I had to surrender my CDL and passport for extensive review.  Finally they let me go, and I have...never...been...back.

While travelling in countries where shakedowns are likely, my wife and I have started carrying $50 in our passports.  (US or the local currency if US isn't widely used.)  That way, we don't have to offer a bribe and they don't have to ask.  The money is just in there and if they want to take it, they can.  If they ask, we say it is just there for safekeeping.  Worked well in Mexico and in Guatemala.  The money was only taken once over multiple visits to each country.  It never became an issue in Russia over the three weeks we were there in 2004.  We did see Russian citizens and business owners being shaken down but not foreign tourists.  In Siberia, we saw several occasions where an armed, uniformed soldier entered the restaurant or bar we were in and we noticed the staff's faces go blank.  Not scared or angry, blank.  Then the owner would go outside the restaurant and hand the soldier something.  Everything returned to normal after the owner returned.  
Returning to Griner, I hope that she doesn't get caught up as a hostage and is able to return home soon.  On our trip we did have to work through some Russian bureaucracy on a minor issue and it was next to impossible.  I can't imagine how it would feel to be caught up in the Russian justice system as a pawn in world politics.  

Cheers,
Pete F.

[lex24]

This is quite interesting from a social experiment standpoint. It also suggests to me that Griner "doesn't rate" in terms of her "value" to America, and Russia made some wrong assumptions (imagine that) if it thought she could be a political pawn. Of course now, to get out of Russia, she'd probably have to be driven to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, or Finland, or some Asian border country - if even possible - due to Russian aircraft being banned from so many countries and vice-versa.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1500957803598471169[/tweet]

Or maybe the Administration has more urgent matters regarding Russia to deal with right now.

[lex24]

This is quite interesting from a social experiment standpoint. It also suggests to me that Griner "doesn't rate" in terms of her "value" to America, and Russia made some wrong assumptions (imagine that) if it thought she could be a political pawn. Of course now, to get out of Russia, she'd probably have to be driven to Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, or Finland, or some Asian border country - if even possible - due to Russian aircraft being banned from so many countries and vice-versa.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1500957803598471169[/tweet]

Or maybe the Administration has more urgent matters regarding Russia to deal with right now.

[BostonCard]

No, Lex, don’t you know, the administration can achieve everything it wants to if only it had enough political will.

BC

[BostonCard]

No, Lex, don’t you know, the administration can achieve everything it wants to if only it had enough political will.

BC

[cardcrimson]

No, Lex, don’t you know, the administration can achieve everything it wants to if only it had enough political will.

BC

Et tu, Brute?

[cardcrimson]

No, Lex, don’t you know, the administration can achieve everything it wants to if only it had enough political will.

BC

Et tu, Brute?

[82lsju]

some more info from the NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/sport...?smtyp=cur

[82lsju]

some more info from the NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/sport...?smtyp=cur