[DC 86]

Detention extended through May 19 by a Russian court, as reported by Tass.

[DC 86]

Detention extended through May 19 by a Russian court, as reported by Tass.

[Softball Fan]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/us-olympi...amp-expert



"

U.S. Olympic gold medalist and WNBA champion Brittney Griner could face up to five years in a Russian labor camp after she was arrested in the country last month, an expert said."

"One thing I find a little worrisome is this extension of her preliminary holding from two months to three months, because you have to go to a higher authority to get it lengthened."

[Softball Fan]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/us-olympi...amp-expert



"

U.S. Olympic gold medalist and WNBA champion Brittney Griner could face up to five years in a Russian labor camp after she was arrested in the country last month, an expert said."

"One thing I find a little worrisome is this extension of her preliminary holding from two months to three months, because you have to go to a higher authority to get it lengthened."

[M T]

I've watched some of the WBB tournament on TV, but I admit to watching the play and not the talking heads.  But I expected more attention on Griner than I've seen.  I expected "Free Griner" signs and such (not that I expect them to do anything useful, and they could be detrimental by elevating her as a political pawn).

[M T]

I've watched some of the WBB tournament on TV, but I admit to watching the play and not the talking heads.  But I expected more attention on Griner than I've seen.  I expected "Free Griner" signs and such (not that I expect them to do anything useful, and they could be detrimental by elevating her as a political pawn).

[DC 86]

I've watched some of the WBB tournament on TV, but I admit to watching the play and not the talking heads.  But I expected more attention on Griner than I've seen.  I expected "Free Griner" signs and such (not that I expect them to do anything useful, and they could be detrimental by elevating her as a political pawn).

Inferring from a brief interview with T.J. Quinn that I heard, Griner's team is actively discouraging signs at games, hashtags or other social media mentions, etc and trying to minimize broadcast media attention.

She was allowed to meet with U.S. consular officials today for the first time, however her detention was recently extended by two months and under Russian law she could be held pending trial for up to 18 months.

[DC 86]

I've watched some of the WBB tournament on TV, but I admit to watching the play and not the talking heads.  But I expected more attention on Griner than I've seen.  I expected "Free Griner" signs and such (not that I expect them to do anything useful, and they could be detrimental by elevating her as a political pawn).

Inferring from a brief interview with T.J. Quinn that I heard, Griner's team is actively discouraging signs at games, hashtags or other social media mentions, etc and trying to minimize broadcast media attention.

She was allowed to meet with U.S. consular officials today for the first time, however her detention was recently extended by two months and under Russian law she could be held pending trial for up to 18 months.

[TheWildJacko]

I looked for this elsewhere on the board but haven't seen anyone posting about it yet, apologies if someone has already. Some excellent news this morning: Brittney Griner has been released from prison in a prisoner exchange and is currently on a plane heading home.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/352...r-exchange

[TheWildJacko]

I looked for this elsewhere on the board but haven't seen anyone posting about it yet, apologies if someone has already. Some excellent news this morning: Brittney Griner has been released from prison in a prisoner exchange and is currently on a plane heading home.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/352...r-exchange

[WBB fan]

Fantastic news. There's a great interview with Chiney about this. I can't find a direct link to it, but it's at   https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/  along with several other relevant videos.

[WBB fan]

Fantastic news. There's a great interview with Chiney about this. I can't find a direct link to it, but it's at   https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/  along with several other relevant videos.

[gocard14]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

[gocard14]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

[dabigv13]

Sticky situation. I guess I'm skeptical that Bout was much more dangerous than a replacement level arms dealer. Like drugs, I presume the weapons mostly sell themselves.

And I feel like this would have been handled similarly by any US government We say we don't negotiate with terrorists but actually we do. So whatever incentive there is to kidnap Americans seems unchanged to me.

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

[dabigv13]

Sticky situation. I guess I'm skeptical that Bout was much more dangerous than a replacement level arms dealer. Like drugs, I presume the weapons mostly sell themselves.

And I feel like this would have been handled similarly by any US government We say we don't negotiate with terrorists but actually we do. So whatever incentive there is to kidnap Americans seems unchanged to me.

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

[rogpodge]

Bout was a target because he overwhelmingly sold guns specifically to enemies of the United States and terrorists whose targets were American citizens. The fact that he also supplied weapons to both sides of civil wars, etc. is just additional information about his moral compass. 

This is what happens when you negotiate from a position of weakness. You take what you can get. Say what you will about others but the contrasts are stark.

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/stat...7098986503

Don't forget that Biden was involved in the Bowe Bergdahl swap too. Consider the source, etc., but I think this analysis is the best analysis I've seen. 

https://twitter.com/MorganOrtagus/status...1466132480

Be happy, but to say that this is a win is a massive overstatement. Putin got everything he wanted.

[rogpodge]

Bout was a target because he overwhelmingly sold guns specifically to enemies of the United States and terrorists whose targets were American citizens. The fact that he also supplied weapons to both sides of civil wars, etc. is just additional information about his moral compass. 

This is what happens when you negotiate from a position of weakness. You take what you can get. Say what you will about others but the contrasts are stark.

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/stat...7098986503

Don't forget that Biden was involved in the Bowe Bergdahl swap too. Consider the source, etc., but I think this analysis is the best analysis I've seen. 

https://twitter.com/MorganOrtagus/status...1466132480

Be happy, but to say that this is a win is a massive overstatement. Putin got everything he wanted.

[qwerty49]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

I am very torn about this also.  I lived overseas for 10 years and was EXTREMELY AWARE of the draconian penalties for drug possession in other countries.  As was every other American, including every schoolkid at the local American Schools.  Maybe the Russians planted stuff, who knows.  But bottom line IMHO it's a bad trade and now a terrible man is free again.

I hope Griner can find a way to demonstrate her appreciation for her freedom.

[qwerty49]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

I am very torn about this also.  I lived overseas for 10 years and was EXTREMELY AWARE of the draconian penalties for drug possession in other countries.  As was every other American, including every schoolkid at the local American Schools.  Maybe the Russians planted stuff, who knows.  But bottom line IMHO it's a bad trade and now a terrible man is free again.

I hope Griner can find a way to demonstrate her appreciation for her freedom.

[gailtate]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

I am very torn about this also.  I lived overseas for 10 years and was EXTREMELY AWARE of the draconian penalties for drug possession in other countries.  As was every other American, including every schoolkid at the local American Schools.  Maybe the Russians planted stuff, who knows.  But bottom line IMHO it's a bad trade and now a terrible man is free again.

I hope Griner can find a way to demonstrate her appreciation for her freedom.

I respect the woman but I have zero admiration.You enunciate all the right points very well. I leave it at that.

[gailtate]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

I am very torn about this also.  I lived overseas for 10 years and was EXTREMELY AWARE of the draconian penalties for drug possession in other countries.  As was every other American, including every schoolkid at the local American Schools.  Maybe the Russians planted stuff, who knows.  But bottom line IMHO it's a bad trade and now a terrible man is free again.

I hope Griner can find a way to demonstrate her appreciation for her freedom.

I respect the woman but I have zero admiration.You enunciate all the right points very well. I leave it at that.

[81alum]

Sticky situation. I guess I'm skeptical that Bout was much more dangerous than a replacement level arms dealer. 

I agree with this.  From a utilitarian/consequentialist position the return of Bout won't have any appreciable impact, given that while he has been in our custody he has already been replaced with other equally capable and equally scurrilous individuals doing what he once did.  So his return will not in fact make us less safe in any immediate sense.

Nor is it likely that his release will somehow undermine any deterrent effect that keeps people from selling arms to our enemies.  It is nearly always the fear of being caught in the first place that has the greatest deterrent effect.  And he did serve 10 years already.

On the other hand, from the standpoint of justice, Bout's release is a tragedy.  That man deserves every scintilla of punishment he has received and a lot more.  But these deals are never about justice, but about something that gives both sides what they want.

I don't regret trading Bout.  I do wish we got more for him.  My heart goes out to Paul Whelan's family.

[81alum]

Sticky situation. I guess I'm skeptical that Bout was much more dangerous than a replacement level arms dealer. 

I agree with this.  From a utilitarian/consequentialist position the return of Bout won't have any appreciable impact, given that while he has been in our custody he has already been replaced with other equally capable and equally scurrilous individuals doing what he once did.  So his return will not in fact make us less safe in any immediate sense.

Nor is it likely that his release will somehow undermine any deterrent effect that keeps people from selling arms to our enemies.  It is nearly always the fear of being caught in the first place that has the greatest deterrent effect.  And he did serve 10 years already.

On the other hand, from the standpoint of justice, Bout's release is a tragedy.  That man deserves every scintilla of punishment he has received and a lot more.  But these deals are never about justice, but about something that gives both sides what they want.

I don't regret trading Bout.  I do wish we got more for him.  My heart goes out to Paul Whelan's family.

[French Rage]

This is what happens when you negotiate from a position of weakness. You take what you can get. Say what you will about others but the contrasts are stark.

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/stat...7098986503

Hey cool, now do the 5000 Taliban released right as Afghanistan was collapsing.

[French Rage]

This is what happens when you negotiate from a position of weakness. You take what you can get. Say what you will about others but the contrasts are stark.

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/stat...7098986503

Hey cool, now do the 5000 Taliban released right as Afghanistan was collapsing.

[BostonCard]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

[BostonCard]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

[dabigv13]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

Sure, but her lawyer admitted the drugs were hers. Maybe they were just playing the hand they were dealt and the drugs were planted, but the defense was that it was to help manage pain or some BS.

[dabigv13]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

Sure, but her lawyer admitted the drugs were hers. Maybe they were just playing the hand they were dealt and the drugs were planted, but the defense was that it was to help manage pain or some BS.

[rogpodge]

This is what happens when you negotiate from a position of weakness. You take what you can get. Say what you will about others but the contrasts are stark.

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/stat...7098986503

Hey cool, now do the 5000 Taliban released right as Afghanistan was collapsing.

Perhaps you misread the tone of my post. Biden, and Obama for that matter, has gotten terrible value in these prisoner swaps.

As for the "dangerousness" of Bout, between Afghanistan and Ukraine, the world is now flooded with high quality American weapons that can be snatched up and brokered to America's enemies. We think we know what we left behind in Afghanistan. The Ukrainians are telling us they have no accounting of what arms were delivered where, and what is happening to them. Adding an arms brokering network back onto the field in this chaotic environment isn't the best timing.

[rogpodge]

This is what happens when you negotiate from a position of weakness. You take what you can get. Say what you will about others but the contrasts are stark.

https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/stat...7098986503

Hey cool, now do the 5000 Taliban released right as Afghanistan was collapsing.

Perhaps you misread the tone of my post. Biden, and Obama for that matter, has gotten terrible value in these prisoner swaps.

As for the "dangerousness" of Bout, between Afghanistan and Ukraine, the world is now flooded with high quality American weapons that can be snatched up and brokered to America's enemies. We think we know what we left behind in Afghanistan. The Ukrainians are telling us they have no accounting of what arms were delivered where, and what is happening to them. Adding an arms brokering network back onto the field in this chaotic environment isn't the best timing.

[TheWildJacko]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

Sure, but her lawyer admitted the drugs were hers. Maybe they were just playing the hand they were dealt and the drugs were planted, but the defense was that it was to help manage pain or some BS.

Which part do you consider to be BS? That hash oil is used to manage pain? That a professional athlete might need something to help her manage pain that she likely accrued from playing at the highest level year-round? Or that Brittney Griner specifically would have been using it for that purpose?

[TheWildJacko]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

Sure, but her lawyer admitted the drugs were hers. Maybe they were just playing the hand they were dealt and the drugs were planted, but the defense was that it was to help manage pain or some BS.

Which part do you consider to be BS? That hash oil is used to manage pain? That a professional athlete might need something to help her manage pain that she likely accrued from playing at the highest level year-round? Or that Brittney Griner specifically would have been using it for that purpose?

[Mudhead]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

I am very torn about this also.  I lived overseas for 10 years and was EXTREMELY AWARE of the draconian penalties for drug possession in other countries.  As was every other American, including every schoolkid at the local American Schools.  Maybe the Russians planted stuff, who knows.  But bottom line IMHO it's a bad trade and now a terrible man is free again.

I hope Griner can find a way to demonstrate her appreciation for her freedom.

im on board with these comments. I’m very glad she is free.  Whether she was in possession or not has nothing to do with why she was arrested; she was arrested because as a gay, black, woman athlete she represented the best bargaining chip Putin could grab.  He has wanted his arms dealer back for a long time and finally found the hostage necessary to get him. I don’t think it’s any more complex than that.

We have sent a terrible signal to Putin and the world; if you imprison the right person, you can cut a deal with thie US.  Americans , particularly high visibility politically significant one would do well to avoid travels in many parts of the world.. the hunting season is now open.

This is a bad, bad deal. Truth :If it were my sister or my daughter , I would have begged Biden to make it.

[Mudhead]

I am honestly torn about this. Obviously Griner did not deserve this treatment and was being targeted to create leverage, which sadly worked. 

We released an infamous Russian arms dealer likely responsible indirectly for many deaths to get her back. Is that worth it? Does it not incentivize essentially the kidnapping of American citizens abroad since we will give into demands to get them back?

Normally I’m a Biden fan but I don’t like this. I would rather use the stick and not the carrot. I’d have threatened to arm Ukraine with everything from tomahawks on down and really put Russian bases at risk.

I am very torn about this also.  I lived overseas for 10 years and was EXTREMELY AWARE of the draconian penalties for drug possession in other countries.  As was every other American, including every schoolkid at the local American Schools.  Maybe the Russians planted stuff, who knows.  But bottom line IMHO it's a bad trade and now a terrible man is free again.

I hope Griner can find a way to demonstrate her appreciation for her freedom.

im on board with these comments. I’m very glad she is free.  Whether she was in possession or not has nothing to do with why she was arrested; she was arrested because as a gay, black, woman athlete she represented the best bargaining chip Putin could grab.  He has wanted his arms dealer back for a long time and finally found the hostage necessary to get him. I don’t think it’s any more complex than that.

We have sent a terrible signal to Putin and the world; if you imprison the right person, you can cut a deal with thie US.  Americans , particularly high visibility politically significant one would do well to avoid travels in many parts of the world.. the hunting season is now open.

This is a bad, bad deal. Truth :If it were my sister or my daughter , I would have begged Biden to make it.

[TrumpCard]

If you were a consumer of Afghani contraband, would you buy it from a guy who just got out of a U.S. prison and is well-known to the entire world?  Would you trust that he's not a willing or inadvertent source for U.S. intelligence?

[TrumpCard]

If you were a consumer of Afghani contraband, would you buy it from a guy who just got out of a U.S. prison and is well-known to the entire world?  Would you trust that he's not a willing or inadvertent source for U.S. intelligence?

[dabigv13]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

Sure, but her lawyer admitted the drugs were hers. Maybe they were just playing the hand they were dealt and the drugs were planted, but the defense was that it was to help manage pain or some BS.

Which part do you consider to be BS? 

Smoking weed for pain is BS. Here is a recent meta-analysis showing benefits for pain are pretty much all or mostly a placebo effect.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanet...le/2799017

I don't know her true motivations for smoking weed and really don't care, but don't bring it with you to Russia FFS.

[dabigv13]

Also don't travel to Russia with drugs.

FIFY.  Russia isn't above planting evidence to achieve its means, or poison people who are a threat to its regime.

BC

Sure, but her lawyer admitted the drugs were hers. Maybe they were just playing the hand they were dealt and the drugs were planted, but the defense was that it was to help manage pain or some BS.

Which part do you consider to be BS? 

Smoking weed for pain is BS. Here is a recent meta-analysis showing benefits for pain are pretty much all or mostly a placebo effect.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanet...le/2799017

I don't know her true motivations for smoking weed and really don't care, but don't bring it with you to Russia FFS.