[OutsiderFan]

Farhan Zaidi has lost all his credibility. You simply cannot say something stupid like "I think we have the players on this team to contend" to people who pay attention to how those players are performing, and be trusted. Nothing else you do matters. Statements like that stain and turn fans off.

This is really, really disappointing to me because I had such respect for and liked Farhan a lot.  But now I don't trust him. I can no longer feel good about anything the Giants do with their baseball operations, and will be skeptical of everything.

It's a shame that a management group would build up so much equity and then piss it all away in one off season and trade deadline, but this is precisely what the Giants have done. They are now in San Jose Sharks territory, being left in the dust by the Warriors and Niners. Can they turn it around?  Maybe?  But they are going to have to make some big things happen that they have shown no signs of being able to do in Zaidi's tenure and even before it, to earn back trust and get even close to the Warriors and Niners in the market for attention. Until then, the Giants can muddle away in their mediocrity, changing paint jobs on their structure of a team with a rotting foundation, and be irrelevant pretenders. Most of us won't be bothering to care while they do.

This isn't about being fair weather. This is about not investing in a team that you clearly see isn't trying to do everything possible to win or build for a better tomorrow. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was eagerly anticipating a Rodon trade and had no desire to see the score or look at condensed highlights of the game last night, or now has no idea who the Giants play after the Fodgers. I just assumed they would be swept again after Webb got rocked, and be 5-6 GB of the "holy grail" #3 WC spot a few days after Zaidi claimed they had the players to contend. Assumption correct. Now 6 GB in the loss column. Just an absolute joke and now humiliating to have the 6th most valuable team in MLB, the richest ownership group being clowned by the Fodgers and Padres. I'll be paying attention to the Mets & Braves this weekend.

[OutsiderFan]

Farhan Zaidi has lost all his credibility. You simply cannot say something stupid like "I think we have the players on this team to contend" to people who pay attention to how those players are performing, and be trusted. Nothing else you do matters. Statements like that stain and turn fans off.

This is really, really disappointing to me because I had such respect for and liked Farhan a lot.  But now I don't trust him. I can no longer feel good about anything the Giants do with their baseball operations, and will be skeptical of everything.

It's a shame that a management group would build up so much equity and then piss it all away in one off season and trade deadline, but this is precisely what the Giants have done. They are now in San Jose Sharks territory, being left in the dust by the Warriors and Niners. Can they turn it around?  Maybe?  But they are going to have to make some big things happen that they have shown no signs of being able to do in Zaidi's tenure and even before it, to earn back trust and get even close to the Warriors and Niners in the market for attention. Until then, the Giants can muddle away in their mediocrity, changing paint jobs on their structure of a team with a rotting foundation, and be irrelevant pretenders. Most of us won't be bothering to care while they do.

This isn't about being fair weather. This is about not investing in a team that you clearly see isn't trying to do everything possible to win or build for a better tomorrow. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was eagerly anticipating a Rodon trade and had no desire to see the score or look at condensed highlights of the game last night, or now has no idea who the Giants play after the Fodgers. I just assumed they would be swept again after Webb got rocked, and be 5-6 GB of the "holy grail" #3 WC spot a few days after Zaidi claimed they had the players to contend. Assumption correct. Now 6 GB in the loss column. Just an absolute joke and now humiliating to have the 6th most valuable team in MLB, the richest ownership group being clowned by the Fodgers and Padres. I'll be paying attention to the Mets & Braves this weekend.

[Phogge]

Ok you made your point. Again and again. Apparently you can’t enjoy baseball when your team is not winning. There is so much more to the game than winning.

[Phogge]

Ok you made your point. Again and again. Apparently you can’t enjoy baseball when your team is not winning. There is so much more to the game than winning.

[OutsiderFan]

Ok you made your point. Again and again. Apparently you can’t enjoy baseball when your team is not winning. There is so much more to the game than winning.

I said it's not about winning and losing per se. It's about the effort not being put in to try. I can accept my team losing if I know it is doing everything it can to win, or is executing some discernible plan to win in the future. The Giants have made passive minimalist efforts to win and have no clear plan what they are doing other than trying to fleece fans at their ballpark with the illusion they are trying to win.

The whole organization is dishonest, and I'm beginning to think those who pin it on Charles Johnson may be correct, a position I have rejected up until now.

[OutsiderFan]

Ok you made your point. Again and again. Apparently you can’t enjoy baseball when your team is not winning. There is so much more to the game than winning.

I said it's not about winning and losing per se. It's about the effort not being put in to try. I can accept my team losing if I know it is doing everything it can to win, or is executing some discernible plan to win in the future. The Giants have made passive minimalist efforts to win and have no clear plan what they are doing other than trying to fleece fans at their ballpark with the illusion they are trying to win.

The whole organization is dishonest, and I'm beginning to think those who pin it on Charles Johnson may be correct, a position I have rejected up until now.

[lex24]

Farhan Zaidi has lost all his credibility. You simply cannot say something stupid like "I think we have the players on this team to contend" to people who pay attention to how those players are performing, and be trusted. Nothing else you do matters. Statements like that stain and turn fans off.

This is really, really disappointing to me because I had such respect for and liked Farhan a lot.  But now I don't trust him. I can no longer feel good about anything the Giants do with their baseball operations, and will be skeptical of everything.

It's a shame that a management group would build up so much equity and then piss it all away in one off season and trade deadline, but this is precisely what the Giants have done. They are now in San Jose Sharks territory, being left in the dust by the Warriors and Niners. Can they turn it around?  Maybe?  But they are going to have to make some big things happen that they have shown no signs of being able to do in Zaidi's tenure and even before it, to earn back trust and get even close to the Warriors and Niners in the market for attention. Until then, the Giants can muddle away in their mediocrity, changing paint jobs on their structure of a team with a rotting foundation, and be irrelevant pretenders. Most of us won't be bothering to care while they do.

This isn't about being fair weather. This is about not investing in a team that you clearly see isn't trying to do everything possible to win or build for a better tomorrow. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was eagerly anticipating a Rodon trade and had no desire to see the score or look at condensed highlights of the game last night, or now has no idea who the Giants play after the Fodgers. I just assumed they would be swept again after Webb got rocked, and be 5-6 GB of the "holy grail" #3 WC spot a few days after Zaidi claimed they had the players to contend. Assumption correct. Now 6 GB in the loss column. Just an absolute joke and now humiliating to have the 6th most valuable team in MLB, the richest ownership group being clowned by the Fodgers and Padres. I'll be paying attention to the Mets & Braves this weekend.

Gone through a lot of very lean years.  Not turning my back on them now.  They have a hole to dig out of.  Rest of this year should be about seeing what they have for next year.  Bart is showing some positive signs.  Gonzalez, despite his occasional brain farts has ability.  Estrada is a nice player. Mercedes has nice ABs. Don’t know if he can play anywhere.  Villar, unfortunately, didn’t produce.  With Davis here, he will be optioned when Crawford or Estrada comes back.  

They have, even when Rodon leaves, a solid starting staff.  But obviously not much 1-9. 

‘23 FA will be interesting.  They need to bring in a couple everyday players.  Judge will probably stay in NY.  If not, pay him the $500, 000,000 over 8 that it will take.  He will pay that back at the gate and in merchandise.  Dodgers will probably keep Tr. Turner. If not chase him hard.
One concern is relevance.  If FAs feel it’s a major rebuild, they are unlikely to sign. Another reason, by the way, that they should have signed Marte and Story last year.  


I’d call Ramos up and give him RF. He will struggle (he’s struggling at AAA). But they can work with him and see if he has a legit shot.  

Call up Sean Hjelle and use him. Again, let’s see if he’s even a possible ml option.  Start fast tracking Schmitt.  

The only way to salvage anything for this year is to start building for next year…..

[lex24]

Farhan Zaidi has lost all his credibility. You simply cannot say something stupid like "I think we have the players on this team to contend" to people who pay attention to how those players are performing, and be trusted. Nothing else you do matters. Statements like that stain and turn fans off.

This is really, really disappointing to me because I had such respect for and liked Farhan a lot.  But now I don't trust him. I can no longer feel good about anything the Giants do with their baseball operations, and will be skeptical of everything.

It's a shame that a management group would build up so much equity and then piss it all away in one off season and trade deadline, but this is precisely what the Giants have done. They are now in San Jose Sharks territory, being left in the dust by the Warriors and Niners. Can they turn it around?  Maybe?  But they are going to have to make some big things happen that they have shown no signs of being able to do in Zaidi's tenure and even before it, to earn back trust and get even close to the Warriors and Niners in the market for attention. Until then, the Giants can muddle away in their mediocrity, changing paint jobs on their structure of a team with a rotting foundation, and be irrelevant pretenders. Most of us won't be bothering to care while they do.

This isn't about being fair weather. This is about not investing in a team that you clearly see isn't trying to do everything possible to win or build for a better tomorrow. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was eagerly anticipating a Rodon trade and had no desire to see the score or look at condensed highlights of the game last night, or now has no idea who the Giants play after the Fodgers. I just assumed they would be swept again after Webb got rocked, and be 5-6 GB of the "holy grail" #3 WC spot a few days after Zaidi claimed they had the players to contend. Assumption correct. Now 6 GB in the loss column. Just an absolute joke and now humiliating to have the 6th most valuable team in MLB, the richest ownership group being clowned by the Fodgers and Padres. I'll be paying attention to the Mets & Braves this weekend.

Gone through a lot of very lean years.  Not turning my back on them now.  They have a hole to dig out of.  Rest of this year should be about seeing what they have for next year.  Bart is showing some positive signs.  Gonzalez, despite his occasional brain farts has ability.  Estrada is a nice player. Mercedes has nice ABs. Don’t know if he can play anywhere.  Villar, unfortunately, didn’t produce.  With Davis here, he will be optioned when Crawford or Estrada comes back.  

They have, even when Rodon leaves, a solid starting staff.  But obviously not much 1-9. 

‘23 FA will be interesting.  They need to bring in a couple everyday players.  Judge will probably stay in NY.  If not, pay him the $500, 000,000 over 8 that it will take.  He will pay that back at the gate and in merchandise.  Dodgers will probably keep Tr. Turner. If not chase him hard.
One concern is relevance.  If FAs feel it’s a major rebuild, they are unlikely to sign. Another reason, by the way, that they should have signed Marte and Story last year.  


I’d call Ramos up and give him RF. He will struggle (he’s struggling at AAA). But they can work with him and see if he has a legit shot.  

Call up Sean Hjelle and use him. Again, let’s see if he’s even a possible ml option.  Start fast tracking Schmitt.  

The only way to salvage anything for this year is to start building for next year…..

[BostonCard]

I feel like everyone should take a turn being a long suffering Padres fan to really appreciate what the Giants bring to the table.

The last time we won a World Series was never.  We’ve been to the World Series twice (only once since I first moved to San Diego). In my life as a fan, we’ve been to the playoffs a grand total of five times.

Sure, the current management is spending like a drunken sailor, and I’m excited to see what Soto and Tatis do together for the next 1+ years (if Tatis gets back from the DL).  But also, if we don’t win, we are looking at a long winter, with a decimated farm system and perennial concern that ownership will change its mind and sell all the pieces.

It boggles the mind that a fan base who witnessed a record breaking run put together by a team consisting of some aging vets and held together by duct tape and bailing wire has “lost all faith” in management because they don’t also spend like drunken sailors and have a team that is three games under .500.

I got the world’s smallest violin for you fair weather fans.

BC

[BostonCard]

I feel like everyone should take a turn being a long suffering Padres fan to really appreciate what the Giants bring to the table.

The last time we won a World Series was never.  We’ve been to the World Series twice (only once since I first moved to San Diego). In my life as a fan, we’ve been to the playoffs a grand total of five times.

Sure, the current management is spending like a drunken sailor, and I’m excited to see what Soto and Tatis do together for the next 1+ years (if Tatis gets back from the DL).  But also, if we don’t win, we are looking at a long winter, with a decimated farm system and perennial concern that ownership will change its mind and sell all the pieces.

It boggles the mind that a fan base who witnessed a record breaking run put together by a team consisting of some aging vets and held together by duct tape and bailing wire has “lost all faith” in management because they don’t also spend like drunken sailors and have a team that is three games under .500.

I got the world’s smallest violin for you fair weather fans.

BC

[lex24]

Ok you made your point. Again and again. Apparently you can’t enjoy baseball when your team is not winning. There is so much more to the game than winning.

I said it's not about winning and losing per se. It's about the effort not being put in to try. I can accept my team losing if I know it is doing everything it can to win, or is executing some discernible plan to win in the future. The Giants have made passive minimalist efforts to win and have no clear plan what they are doing other than trying to fleece fans at their ballpark with the illusion they are trying to win.

The whole organization is dishonest, and I'm beginning to think those who pin it on Charles Johnson may be correct, a position I have rejected up until now.

Horses—t on Charles Johnson.  He’s been a part of the ownership group for a long time, including when they spent. Further, the head of the group is his son Greg Johnson. And Larry Baer is still running the show. As he has since McGowan’s days.

 Charles Johnson is an easy mark for his political contributions.  Which are irrelevant to his ownership role. (FTR, I certainly don’t like his political contributions. But they are legal. He’s also donated boatloads of money to good causes.) Especially given that the team is perhaps the most progressive organization in MLB.

And “the whole organization is dishonest “ is one of the more absurd statements I’ve seen on this board.”

[lex24]

Ok you made your point. Again and again. Apparently you can’t enjoy baseball when your team is not winning. There is so much more to the game than winning.

I said it's not about winning and losing per se. It's about the effort not being put in to try. I can accept my team losing if I know it is doing everything it can to win, or is executing some discernible plan to win in the future. The Giants have made passive minimalist efforts to win and have no clear plan what they are doing other than trying to fleece fans at their ballpark with the illusion they are trying to win.

The whole organization is dishonest, and I'm beginning to think those who pin it on Charles Johnson may be correct, a position I have rejected up until now.

Horses—t on Charles Johnson.  He’s been a part of the ownership group for a long time, including when they spent. Further, the head of the group is his son Greg Johnson. And Larry Baer is still running the show. As he has since McGowan’s days.

 Charles Johnson is an easy mark for his political contributions.  Which are irrelevant to his ownership role. (FTR, I certainly don’t like his political contributions. But they are legal. He’s also donated boatloads of money to good causes.) Especially given that the team is perhaps the most progressive organization in MLB.

And “the whole organization is dishonest “ is one of the more absurd statements I’ve seen on this board.”

[BobK]

After today the Giants will play 14 of the next 17 games against teams with losing records. Yes time to give up. Lol. No
Dishonest? Yep like last year. Give up OF be the hater but please elsewhere
Now I do hate again taking the third strike with runners on base. Twice late last night. Why? With two strikes protect

[BobK]

After today the Giants will play 14 of the next 17 games against teams with losing records. Yes time to give up. Lol. No
Dishonest? Yep like last year. Give up OF be the hater but please elsewhere
Now I do hate again taking the third strike with runners on base. Twice late last night. Why? With two strikes protect

[Mick]

You can stick a fork in them for 2022. Dodgers better at every position, starters, bullpen, manager, general manager, organist, trainers, owner.........

You forgot announcer...

[Mick]

You can stick a fork in them for 2022. Dodgers better at every position, starters, bullpen, manager, general manager, organist, trainers, owner.........

You forgot announcer...

[Phogge]

OF casts Zaidi aside with the bathwater. The organization's plan was to add here and there and build a powerhouse farm system. The best prospects are in High A Eugene and most are 19-22. Give me a f****** break pal.

As for BC, I think the majority of fans here aren't cutting their wrists. I think they are done this year but hold out hope for improvement next season. Not necessarily a champ but a more interesting team without the old guys who can't stay out of the hospital ward.

There are encouraging signs. After miserable starts Hunter Bishop, Pomaires and Matos have inched their BA's up while supplying power. Carter Aldrete and Casey Schmidt are having outstanding years. Vaun Brown, the first non-pitcher drafted by the Giants last year tore up the Cal League and is hitting .330 at Eugene after a promotion. There are plenty of arms and Chris Wright is showing signs of being a potential lock down closer.

The system has few guys who can help in 2023. I'm not a fan of Ramos but I like what I see of Isan Diaz and the recently called up Johnson after watching them on Channel 44. They have to add this winter, especially in the outfield, third base and the bullpen.

And Bobbbbbbb is correct. I don't think it will happen but I never give up. Our ornery fan has.

[Phogge]

OF casts Zaidi aside with the bathwater. The organization's plan was to add here and there and build a powerhouse farm system. The best prospects are in High A Eugene and most are 19-22. Give me a f****** break pal.

As for BC, I think the majority of fans here aren't cutting their wrists. I think they are done this year but hold out hope for improvement next season. Not necessarily a champ but a more interesting team without the old guys who can't stay out of the hospital ward.

There are encouraging signs. After miserable starts Hunter Bishop, Pomaires and Matos have inched their BA's up while supplying power. Carter Aldrete and Casey Schmidt are having outstanding years. Vaun Brown, the first non-pitcher drafted by the Giants last year tore up the Cal League and is hitting .330 at Eugene after a promotion. There are plenty of arms and Chris Wright is showing signs of being a potential lock down closer.

The system has few guys who can help in 2023. I'm not a fan of Ramos but I like what I see of Isan Diaz and the recently called up Johnson after watching them on Channel 44. They have to add this winter, especially in the outfield, third base and the bullpen.

And Bobbbbbbb is correct. I don't think it will happen but I never give up. Our ornery fan has.

[Giants]

Hey BC…

Never confuse a single “what have you done for me lately” who clearly does not understand the dynamics of what constitutes a true fan of a sports team with those who follow said team through thick and thin.  Heck, I am disappointed this year but I also understand that s… happens.

Last year, everything that could go right did.
This year, everything that could go wrong did.  

The time for a complete autopsy will come later.  In the meantime, I was surprised that more action did not occur at the trading deadline.  However, after reading a number of articles on the topic, I have a much better understanding of why Zaidi took the conservative approach.  I don’t necessarily agree but I get it.

This off-season will tell the tale. The loss of Posey after last season was far more devastating than anyone, especially SF leadership, realized.  The Giants need a franchise face that can carry the team when times get tough.  In other words, they need to sign someone who can “move the needle”.  The good news - the pockets are deep.  The money is there.  I am confident that Zaidi gets it and will do what it takes to get the Giants back on track.

P.S. I’m rooting for your Padres to take down the evil empire……

[Giants]

Hey BC…

Never confuse a single “what have you done for me lately” who clearly does not understand the dynamics of what constitutes a true fan of a sports team with those who follow said team through thick and thin.  Heck, I am disappointed this year but I also understand that s… happens.

Last year, everything that could go right did.
This year, everything that could go wrong did.  

The time for a complete autopsy will come later.  In the meantime, I was surprised that more action did not occur at the trading deadline.  However, after reading a number of articles on the topic, I have a much better understanding of why Zaidi took the conservative approach.  I don’t necessarily agree but I get it.

This off-season will tell the tale. The loss of Posey after last season was far more devastating than anyone, especially SF leadership, realized.  The Giants need a franchise face that can carry the team when times get tough.  In other words, they need to sign someone who can “move the needle”.  The good news - the pockets are deep.  The money is there.  I am confident that Zaidi gets it and will do what it takes to get the Giants back on track.

P.S. I’m rooting for your Padres to take down the evil empire……

[Phogge]

Padres or Brewers. Teams that have never done it. Not many alive in Milwaukee who saw the Braves win in '57. Spahn, Burdette and Buhl with a touch of Pizarro thrown in. McMahon.

Bruton, Logan, Matthews, Aaron, Adcock, Schoendienst, Crandell, Pafko, Covington. Formidable.

[Phogge]

Padres or Brewers. Teams that have never done it. Not many alive in Milwaukee who saw the Braves win in '57. Spahn, Burdette and Buhl with a touch of Pizarro thrown in. McMahon.

Bruton, Logan, Matthews, Aaron, Adcock, Schoendienst, Crandell, Pafko, Covington. Formidable.

[Giants]

Padres or Brewers. Teams that have never done it. Not many alive in Milwaukee who saw the Braves win in '57. Spahn, Burdette and Buhl with a touch of Pizarro thrown in. McMahon.

Bruton, Logan, Matthews, Aaron, Adcock, Schoendienst, Crandell, Pafko, Covington. Formidable.

1957 - the first year I was engaged in the World Series as a fan.  I remember rooting for the Braves that year because they were the National League team and the soon to arrive Giants were in that league.

[Giants]

Padres or Brewers. Teams that have never done it. Not many alive in Milwaukee who saw the Braves win in '57. Spahn, Burdette and Buhl with a touch of Pizarro thrown in. McMahon.

Bruton, Logan, Matthews, Aaron, Adcock, Schoendienst, Crandell, Pafko, Covington. Formidable.

1957 - the first year I was engaged in the World Series as a fan.  I remember rooting for the Braves that year because they were the National League team and the soon to arrive Giants were in that league.

[Phogge]

Always rooted against the Yanks (except for Yogi) from the first WS I watched ('52 vs Brooklyn). I became a Dodger fan, God help me. Instantly changed in April '58 loading film mags for my dad. I have a Chronicle picture of myself writing a camera report while my pop shoots a 35mm Bell and Howell on the field.

[Phogge]

Always rooted against the Yanks (except for Yogi) from the first WS I watched ('52 vs Brooklyn). I became a Dodger fan, God help me. Instantly changed in April '58 loading film mags for my dad. I have a Chronicle picture of myself writing a camera report while my pop shoots a 35mm Bell and Howell on the field.

[BobK]

Well Giants you then know why Nippy Jones is famous right?

[BobK]

Well Giants you then know why Nippy Jones is famous right?

[Phogge]

I do.

Wasn't he with the Solons too Bobbbbbb?

[Phogge]

I do.

Wasn't he with the Solons too Bobbbbbb?

[BobK]

He was. When I lived in Sacramento I’d go to most of the Seals games. Nippy played several years for the Solons.

But in the 1957 World Series he was a star. Why?

[BobK]

He was. When I lived in Sacramento I’d go to most of the Seals games. Nippy played several years for the Solons.

But in the 1957 World Series he was a star. Why?

[Phogge]

New numbers: Vaun Brown at Eugene. 113 AB, 7 HR, .345, 1.033 OPS, 12/14 steals. He's 24, wouldn't be surprised to see him sent to AA Richmond.

Rodriquez since promotion to Richmond: 8 IP, 17 K.

---

Shoe polish incident. He requested that the ball be inspected and it had polish on it. Awarded first, Braves came from behind to have a key Series win in a seven game series highlighted by Burdette's three wins.

Who did Schoendienst replace at second after the trade with the Giants?

[Phogge]

New numbers: Vaun Brown at Eugene. 113 AB, 7 HR, .345, 1.033 OPS, 12/14 steals. He's 24, wouldn't be surprised to see him sent to AA Richmond.

Rodriquez since promotion to Richmond: 8 IP, 17 K.

---

Shoe polish incident. He requested that the ball be inspected and it had polish on it. Awarded first, Braves came from behind to have a key Series win in a seven game series highlighted by Burdette's three wins.

Who did Schoendienst replace at second after the trade with the Giants?

[Mick]

New numbers: Vaun Brown at Eugene. 113 AB, 7 HR, .345, 1.033 OPS, 12/14 steals. He's 24, wouldn't be surprised to see him sent to AA Richmond.

Rodriquez since promotion to Richmond: 8 IP, 17 K.

---

Shoe polish incident. He requested that the ball be inspected and it had polish on it. Awarded first, Braves came from behind to have a key Series win in a seven game series highlighted by Burdette's three wins.

Who did Schoendienst replace at second after the trade with the Giants?

Stanky?

[Mick]

New numbers: Vaun Brown at Eugene. 113 AB, 7 HR, .345, 1.033 OPS, 12/14 steals. He's 24, wouldn't be surprised to see him sent to AA Richmond.

Rodriquez since promotion to Richmond: 8 IP, 17 K.

---

Shoe polish incident. He requested that the ball be inspected and it had polish on it. Awarded first, Braves came from behind to have a key Series win in a seven game series highlighted by Burdette's three wins.

Who did Schoendienst replace at second after the trade with the Giants?

Stanky?

[skip75]

Shoe polish incident. He requested that the ball be inspected and it had polish on it. Awarded first, Braves came from behind to have a key Series win in a seven game series highlighted by Burdette's three wins.

Today is the 80th birthday of a former player involved in a separate World Series shoe polish incident.  Who is that?
Sorry - thought I was in the trivia thread - probably should have put it there.

[skip75]

Shoe polish incident. He requested that the ball be inspected and it had polish on it. Awarded first, Braves came from behind to have a key Series win in a seven game series highlighted by Burdette's three wins.

Today is the 80th birthday of a former player involved in a separate World Series shoe polish incident.  Who is that?
Sorry - thought I was in the trivia thread - probably should have put it there.

[BobK]

Actually Nippy picked up the ball and showed the umpire that the ball had black shoe Polish on it

[BobK]

Actually Nippy picked up the ball and showed the umpire that the ball had black shoe Polish on it