[Mick]

Mick and Lex identified one of the biggest problems with baseball in this era…

Webb’s one shutout gives him a tie for the league lead and Snell is the Cy Young favorite despite averaging less than 6 innings per start.  

Juan Marichal, where are you?  We need your help!

Be nice to have Marichal. 243 wins, 244 complete games.

Interestingly, he never received any votes for the Cy Young award until 1970, and he led the majors in victories during the 1960s with 191. He had 20+ wins in every season between 1963 and 1969 except for 1967. His worst ERA was 2.76 in that time frame. Led the league in 1963 and 1968 in victories. Marichal had exceptional control with a strikeout to walk ratio of 3.25, better than Gibson, Carlton, Koufax, Drysdale, Walter Johnson and Clemens. And Marichal was to the All Star game what Bumgarner was to the World Series. He pitched in nine all star games with a 0.50 ERA. He pitched 18 total innings in All Star games, second only to Drysdale.

[Mick]

Mick and Lex identified one of the biggest problems with baseball in this era…

Webb’s one shutout gives him a tie for the league lead and Snell is the Cy Young favorite despite averaging less than 6 innings per start.  

Juan Marichal, where are you?  We need your help!

Be nice to have Marichal. 243 wins, 244 complete games.

Interestingly, he never received any votes for the Cy Young award until 1970, and he led the majors in victories during the 1960s with 191. He had 20+ wins in every season between 1963 and 1969 except for 1967. His worst ERA was 2.76 in that time frame. Led the league in 1963 and 1968 in victories. Marichal had exceptional control with a strikeout to walk ratio of 3.25, better than Gibson, Carlton, Koufax, Drysdale, Walter Johnson and Clemens. And Marichal was to the All Star game what Bumgarner was to the World Series. He pitched in nine all star games with a 0.50 ERA. He pitched 18 total innings in All Star games, second only to Drysdale.

[cardcrimson]

Mick and Lex identified one of the biggest problems with baseball in this era…

Webb’s one shutout gives him a tie for the league lead and Snell is the Cy Young favorite despite averaging less than 6 innings per start.  

Juan Marichal, where are you?  We need your help!

Be nice to have Marichal. 243 wins, 244 complete games.

Interestingly, he never received any votes for the Cy Young award until 1970, and he led the majors in victories during the 1960s with 191. He had 20+ wins in every season between 1963 and 1969 except for 1967. His worst ERA was 2.76 in that time frame. Led the league in 1963 and 1968 in victories. Marichal had exceptional control with a strikeout to walk ratio of 3.25, better than Gibson, Carlton, Koufax, Drysdale, Walter Johnson and Clemens. And Marichal was to the All Star game what Bumgarner was to the World Series. He pitched in nine all star games with a 0.50 ERA. He pitched 18 total innings in All Star games, second only to Drysdale.

Lord knows, he could swing a bat, too.

[cardcrimson]

Mick and Lex identified one of the biggest problems with baseball in this era…

Webb’s one shutout gives him a tie for the league lead and Snell is the Cy Young favorite despite averaging less than 6 innings per start.  

Juan Marichal, where are you?  We need your help!

Be nice to have Marichal. 243 wins, 244 complete games.

Interestingly, he never received any votes for the Cy Young award until 1970, and he led the majors in victories during the 1960s with 191. He had 20+ wins in every season between 1963 and 1969 except for 1967. His worst ERA was 2.76 in that time frame. Led the league in 1963 and 1968 in victories. Marichal had exceptional control with a strikeout to walk ratio of 3.25, better than Gibson, Carlton, Koufax, Drysdale, Walter Johnson and Clemens. And Marichal was to the All Star game what Bumgarner was to the World Series. He pitched in nine all star games with a 0.50 ERA. He pitched 18 total innings in All Star games, second only to Drysdale.

Lord knows, he could swing a bat, too.

[OutsiderFan]

Saw a video last night suggesting there will be more trades than usual this off season because there are very few difference making free agent position players.

Teams with good positions players in need of pitching are open to moving young position players under team control. Teams like the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Orioles are at the top of the list. I would trade Carson Wisenhunt for Red Sox 27 YO CF Jaren Duran in a nanosecond. He had a breakout 2023, but the Red Sox still finished in last place because they lacked pitching, so maybe it's possible. He's everything the Giants need and would be an every day CF.

Another video suggested a rumor the Giants are ready to pay Cody Bellinger $250M over 12 years. Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the rumor.

[OutsiderFan]

Saw a video last night suggesting there will be more trades than usual this off season because there are very few difference making free agent position players.

Teams with good positions players in need of pitching are open to moving young position players under team control. Teams like the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Orioles are at the top of the list. I would trade Carson Wisenhunt for Red Sox 27 YO CF Jaren Duran in a nanosecond. He had a breakout 2023, but the Red Sox still finished in last place because they lacked pitching, so maybe it's possible. He's everything the Giants need and would be an every day CF.

Another video suggested a rumor the Giants are ready to pay Cody Bellinger $250M over 12 years. Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the rumor.

[Mick]

The Giants appear to have a surplus of pitching talent under cost control...they have a few trade pieces. I'd even trade Harrison for the right position player. It's hard to know which position to trade for...the Giants are set at 1B and catcher, but all of their other positions should be up for grabs.

[Mick]

The Giants appear to have a surplus of pitching talent under cost control...they have a few trade pieces. I'd even trade Harrison for the right position player. It's hard to know which position to trade for...the Giants are set at 1B and catcher, but all of their other positions should be up for grabs.

[Giants]

1699448178[/url]']
Saw a video last night suggesting there will be more trades than usual this off season because there are very few difference making free agent position players.

Teams with good positions players in need of pitching are open to moving young position players under team control. Teams like the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Orioles are at the top of the list. I would trade Carson Wisenhunt for Red Sox 27 YO CF Jaren Duran in a nanosecond. He had a breakout 2023, but the Red Sox still finished in last place because they lacked pitching, so maybe it's possible. He's everything the Giants need and would be an every day CF.

Another video suggested a rumor the Giants are ready to pay Cody Bellinger $250M over 12 years. Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the rumor.

No, no, no.  The Giants have got to stay away from players who suffered a significant injury last year.  Duran finished the season on the 60 day injury list after undergoing surgery in August.   Giving up a highly valued prospect like Whisenhunt for another Slater makes zero sense.  Sign Bellinger to play CF.  

Instead of bringing in injured guys, get rid of them!  The Baalke approach to player acquisition is a proven failure.  

I want to see trades but only for durable guys who can play every day.

---

1699458635[/url]']
The Giants appear to have a surplus of pitching talent under cost control...they have a few trade pieces. I'd even trade Harrison for the right position player. It's hard to know which position to trade for...the Giants are set at 1B and catcher, but all of their other positions should be up for grabs.

We are in full agreement.  There should be no untouchables (ex. Bailey and Luciano) either on the current roster or in the minors.

[Giants]

1699448178[/url]']
Saw a video last night suggesting there will be more trades than usual this off season because there are very few difference making free agent position players.

Teams with good positions players in need of pitching are open to moving young position players under team control. Teams like the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Orioles are at the top of the list. I would trade Carson Wisenhunt for Red Sox 27 YO CF Jaren Duran in a nanosecond. He had a breakout 2023, but the Red Sox still finished in last place because they lacked pitching, so maybe it's possible. He's everything the Giants need and would be an every day CF.

Another video suggested a rumor the Giants are ready to pay Cody Bellinger $250M over 12 years. Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the rumor.

No, no, no.  The Giants have got to stay away from players who suffered a significant injury last year.  Duran finished the season on the 60 day injury list after undergoing surgery in August.   Giving up a highly valued prospect like Whisenhunt for another Slater makes zero sense.  Sign Bellinger to play CF.  

Instead of bringing in injured guys, get rid of them!  The Baalke approach to player acquisition is a proven failure.  

I want to see trades but only for durable guys who can play every day.

---

1699458635[/url]']
The Giants appear to have a surplus of pitching talent under cost control...they have a few trade pieces. I'd even trade Harrison for the right position player. It's hard to know which position to trade for...the Giants are set at 1B and catcher, but all of their other positions should be up for grabs.

We are in full agreement.  There should be no untouchables (ex. Bailey and Luciano) either on the current roster or in the minors.

[OutsiderFan]

1699448178[/url]']
Saw a video last night suggesting there will be more trades than usual this off season because there are very few difference making free agent position players.

Teams with good positions players in need of pitching are open to moving young position players under team control. Teams like the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Orioles are at the top of the list. I would trade Carson Wisenhunt for Red Sox 27 YO CF Jaren Duran in a nanosecond. He had a breakout 2023, but the Red Sox still finished in last place because they lacked pitching, so maybe it's possible. He's everything the Giants need and would be an every day CF.

Another video suggested a rumor the Giants are ready to pay Cody Bellinger $250M over 12 years. Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the rumor.

No, no, no.  The Giants have got to stay away from players who suffered a significant injury last year.  Duran finished the season on the 60 day injury list after undergoing surgery in August.   Giving up a highly valued prospect like Whisenhunt for another Slater makes zero sense.  Sign Bellinger to play CF.  

Instead of bringing in injured guys, get rid of them!  The Baalke approach to player acquisition is a proven failure.  

I want to see trades but only for durable guys who can play every day.

---

1699458635[/url]']
The Giants appear to have a surplus of pitching talent under cost control...they have a few trade pieces. I'd even trade Harrison for the right position player. It's hard to know which position to trade for...the Giants are set at 1B and catcher, but all of their other positions should be up for grabs.

We are in full agreement.  There should be no untouchables (ex. Bailey and Luciano) either on the current roster or in the minors.

I had no idea Duran was injured. I just remember being impressed when I saw him playing. But there is a difference between someone getting injured, and someone with a chronic history of injuries. Until he had the ACL tear, Klay Thompson was one of the most durable players in the NBA. Coming off ACL recovery, he tore his achilles. Those are two bad injuries in a row, and yet, the Warriors gave him an extension that paid him full salary for two years he didn't play at all.  And, they won a Championship with him after he returned. Thompson hasn't suffered any other injuries of note since the achilles and appears to be durable once again.

I've no clue what Duran's injury is or the prognosis, but I wouldn't rule out anyone just because they suffered one bad injury. I would rule out those who tend to get injured a lot. Hunter Bishop is a guy I would give up on for sure, and I would not be opposed to trading Luciano if he could net something good in return because he too can't stay healthy, though it is not my preferred choice.

[OutsiderFan]

1699448178[/url]']
Saw a video last night suggesting there will be more trades than usual this off season because there are very few difference making free agent position players.

Teams with good positions players in need of pitching are open to moving young position players under team control. Teams like the Cardinals, Red Sox, and Orioles are at the top of the list. I would trade Carson Wisenhunt for Red Sox 27 YO CF Jaren Duran in a nanosecond. He had a breakout 2023, but the Red Sox still finished in last place because they lacked pitching, so maybe it's possible. He's everything the Giants need and would be an every day CF.

Another video suggested a rumor the Giants are ready to pay Cody Bellinger $250M over 12 years. Seems ludicrous to me, but that's the rumor.

No, no, no.  The Giants have got to stay away from players who suffered a significant injury last year.  Duran finished the season on the 60 day injury list after undergoing surgery in August.   Giving up a highly valued prospect like Whisenhunt for another Slater makes zero sense.  Sign Bellinger to play CF.  

Instead of bringing in injured guys, get rid of them!  The Baalke approach to player acquisition is a proven failure.  

I want to see trades but only for durable guys who can play every day.

---

1699458635[/url]']
The Giants appear to have a surplus of pitching talent under cost control...they have a few trade pieces. I'd even trade Harrison for the right position player. It's hard to know which position to trade for...the Giants are set at 1B and catcher, but all of their other positions should be up for grabs.

We are in full agreement.  There should be no untouchables (ex. Bailey and Luciano) either on the current roster or in the minors.

I had no idea Duran was injured. I just remember being impressed when I saw him playing. But there is a difference between someone getting injured, and someone with a chronic history of injuries. Until he had the ACL tear, Klay Thompson was one of the most durable players in the NBA. Coming off ACL recovery, he tore his achilles. Those are two bad injuries in a row, and yet, the Warriors gave him an extension that paid him full salary for two years he didn't play at all.  And, they won a Championship with him after he returned. Thompson hasn't suffered any other injuries of note since the achilles and appears to be durable once again.

I've no clue what Duran's injury is or the prognosis, but I wouldn't rule out anyone just because they suffered one bad injury. I would rule out those who tend to get injured a lot. Hunter Bishop is a guy I would give up on for sure, and I would not be opposed to trading Luciano if he could net something good in return because he too can't stay healthy, though it is not my preferred choice.

[Mick]

One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

---

BTW, ex-Giant Mauricio Dubon won the Gold Glove at the UT position.

https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-gold-glove-award-winners

[Mick]

One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

---

BTW, ex-Giant Mauricio Dubon won the Gold Glove at the UT position.

https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-gold-glove-award-winners

[lex24]

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler. Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher. He is, however, special defensively. Not just his pitch framing. But how he works with the staff. He also handles the running game well.

[lex24]

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler. Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher. He is, however, special defensively. Not just his pitch framing. But how he works with the staff. He also handles the running game well.

[Mick]

Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

[Mick]

Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

[BobK]

Struck out every 2 1:2 ABs.

[BobK]

Struck out every 2 1:2 ABs.

[Giants]

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

Add to that his throwing ability - #2 pop time and #2 caught stealing above average ranking (both stats include all of the catchers in the majors).

His work behind the plate is invaluable.  If he hits .260, he will easily be among the best overall C’s in the game.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboa...eam_only=1

[Giants]

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

Add to that his throwing ability - #2 pop time and #2 caught stealing above average ranking (both stats include all of the catchers in the majors).

His work behind the plate is invaluable.  If he hits .260, he will easily be among the best overall C’s in the game.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboa...eam_only=1

[Mick]

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

[Mick]

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

[lex24]

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him. He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

[lex24]

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him. He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

[Mick]

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him.  He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

Yes, platooning can be very effective. Or so I've heard.

Bailey could be traded -- anybody can be traded, including McCovey, Perry, Marichal, Cepeda and Mays -- if the right trade was found. I think Bailey will be a Bill Freehan type of catcher. Hopefully he comes back stronger next year.

[Mick]

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him.  He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

Yes, platooning can be very effective. Or so I've heard.

Bailey could be traded -- anybody can be traded, including McCovey, Perry, Marichal, Cepeda and Mays -- if the right trade was found. I think Bailey will be a Bill Freehan type of catcher. Hopefully he comes back stronger next year.

[lex24]

1699548126[/url]']

1699536751[/url]']

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him.  He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

Yes, platooning can be very effective. Or so I've heard.

Bailey could be traded -- anybody can be traded, including McCovey, Perry, Marichal, Cepeda and Mays -- if the right trade was found. I think Bailey will be a Bill Freehan type of catcher. Hopefully he comes back stronger next year.

Yes, Mick.  He can be.  But he won’t be. Zaidi is not stupid enough to trade a top flight switch hitting defensive catcher that his staff loves and that is both cheap and for whom the Giants have 5 years of team control. Particularly when there is no one else in the organization to claim the position. Now, of course, if Atlanta calls and says Acuna’s available, or something equivalent…..

[lex24]

1699548126[/url]']

1699536751[/url]']

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

1699484151[/url]']
One reason I wouldn't mind trading Patrick Bailey. His offensive fade after July 1, was terrible, and his September/October fade was literally one of the 20 worst in MLB history: as in worse than Casey Schmitt:

https://stathead.com/tiny/SYBwC

Add in the fact that his best skill is pitch framing, and MLB might go to all-electronic balls and strikes...and I wouldn't mind trading him.

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him.  He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

Yes, platooning can be very effective. Or so I've heard.

Bailey could be traded -- anybody can be traded, including McCovey, Perry, Marichal, Cepeda and Mays -- if the right trade was found. I think Bailey will be a Bill Freehan type of catcher. Hopefully he comes back stronger next year.

Yes, Mick.  He can be.  But he won’t be. Zaidi is not stupid enough to trade a top flight switch hitting defensive catcher that his staff loves and that is both cheap and for whom the Giants have 5 years of team control. Particularly when there is no one else in the organization to claim the position. Now, of course, if Atlanta calls and says Acuna’s available, or something equivalent…..

[Giants]

1699551542[/url]']

1699548126[/url]']

1699536751[/url]']

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him.  He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

Yes, platooning can be very effective. Or so I've heard.

Bailey could be traded -- anybody can be traded, including McCovey, Perry, Marichal, Cepeda and Mays -- if the right trade was found. I think Bailey will be a Bill Freehan type of catcher. Hopefully he comes back stronger next year.

Yes, Mick.  He can be.  But he  won’t be. Zaidi is not stupid enough to trade a top flight switch hitting defensive catcher that his staff loves and  that is both cheap and for whom the Giants have 5 years of team control. Particularly when there is no one else in the organization to claim the position. Now, of course, if Atlanta calls and says Acuna’s available, or something equivalent…..

Hmmmm…. Acuna?  If that is possible, how about Soto from SD?  

If so, I withdraw my untouchable reference.

Bailey for either Acuna or Soto - ok.
Anyone else - no thanks.  

;)

[Giants]

1699551542[/url]']

1699548126[/url]']

1699536751[/url]']

1699498602[/url]']

1699484469[/url]']

Kapler ground Bailey into the dirt.  He was gassed.  It was obvious.  To anyone but Kapler.  Having said that, I don’t expect Bailey to be more than an average to slightly above average hitting catcher.  He is, however, special defensively.  Not just his pitch framing.  But how he works with the staff.  He also handles the running game well.

I don't think I agree with that, at least not as a starting catcher. He had 84 starts at catcher and came in as a defensive replacement 10 times. He was a hitting terror in May and June, batting about .326 with an OPS over .900. That was only after thirty starts. His batting average was .167 in July and his OPS dropped to .420. Now if you're claiming he was gassed after 30 starts, then I agree with you...because that's when his drastic batting falloff happened. Casey Schmitt's dropoff happened after 20 games. 

Bailey's defensive stats were interesting. Best framer in baseball, no question. Threw out 28% of runners attempting to steal, 4th best in the NL.  He also led the league in errors with 13 and passed balls with 8 in just 84 starts, though he did catch the 11th most innings in MLB. Hey, he's a rookie. He got tired. I get it. Posey's rookie year, he had 1 passed ball and 6 errors in about 100 fewer innings. Of course, Posey caught during the NLDS, NLCS and WS that year...

Interesting stats from Sacramento...Bailey was the 4th best catcher in terms of throwing out baserunners behind Genoves, Reetz and Bart. Bart and Genoves caught between 400 and 450 innings and Bailey caught 101, but Bart and Genoves had 8 errors each and Bailey had 5.  As for batting, Bart had a .750 OPS, Bailey's was .670 in Sacto. But Sacto stats don't mean much, after all Wade Meckler's OPS was .960.

He was gassed in September.  It was obvious watching him.  He caught something like 40  games more than he had ever caught before. (You left out the games he caught in Richmond and  Sacramento.). Plus, Kapler  refused to  give him a full day off. Even those days he didn’t start he’d often come in late. You could see that he was gassed. I certainly did. I started talking about the need to rest him more in mid August.

I suspect the drop off at the plane in July was in part because pitchers  had learned a little something out about him and he had to adjust. Which he did in August. Then he hit the wall. 

It wasn’t only his bat that suffered. He had a  poor defensive September as well. Both throwing and receiving. I think he was something like 2-14 throwing out runners and had 3 PB’s.

He was one of three finalists for a gold glove in his rookie year. So, I think that speaks quite well of his defensive acumen. Which is significant. Giants are not gonna trade Bailey. They hope he’s a fixture behind the plate for years.

---

1699484963[/url]']
Brandon Belt has had an interesting career. His sole All Star year was 2016, OPS of .868. His OPS declined every year after that until the recently-fired manager took over, at which point it jumped to 1.015, and he held it at a high level in the 2021 season (.975). He slumped last year to .676. He gets let go to Toronto, and presto! 182 point .OPS climb to .858, and 19 HRs, his second-highest total ever at the age of 35.

Chronic knee issue has been a factor.  In ‘21 he was healthy until he broke a finger getting hit by a pitch. It helped, as it did with Posey and Crawford, that ‘20 was a very short (or skipped) season. 

He was hurt for a good part of ‘22. Don’t know how he was physically  this year – except for the fact that he was almost exclusively a DH. Which probably helped physically. He also had the advantage of hitting in a much better lineup in a much better hitters park.  Plus, he was strictly a platoon player. Which was not  the case of the Giants.

Yes, platooning can be very effective. Or so I've heard.

Bailey could be traded -- anybody can be traded, including McCovey, Perry, Marichal, Cepeda and Mays -- if the right trade was found. I think Bailey will be a Bill Freehan type of catcher. Hopefully he comes back stronger next year.

Yes, Mick.  He can be.  But he  won’t be. Zaidi is not stupid enough to trade a top flight switch hitting defensive catcher that his staff loves and  that is both cheap and for whom the Giants have 5 years of team control. Particularly when there is no one else in the organization to claim the position. Now, of course, if Atlanta calls and says Acuna’s available, or something equivalent…..

Hmmmm…. Acuna?  If that is possible, how about Soto from SD?  

If so, I withdraw my untouchable reference.

Bailey for either Acuna or Soto - ok.
Anyone else - no thanks.  

;)

[Mick]

The big news and noise is on free agents. How about trade targets? These are suggested by Taylor Wirth:

Luis Robert, Jr., ChiSox OF, 26 yrs old, 38 HRs
Mike Trout, Angels OF, owed $250 mms., 32, 2nd coming of Mickey Mantle
Corbin Bernes, 3x All Star, Cy Young, Brewers, top of rotation ace
Spencer Steer, Cincy UT INF, 25, Cincy needs pitching prospects
Dylan Cease, 2nd for Cy Young in 2022, down year last year, 27, had 214 strikeouts, bad ERA, good FIP, under contract for two seasons
Christian Yelich, Giant killer, Brewers, owed $130 mms. for 5 years, good bounceback in 2023, .817 OPS
Pete Alonso, 46 HR/117 RBI, Mets, capable, just hit .217, 3x All Star, only 29, 
Nolan Gorman, Cards, 2B/3B, breakout last year, upgrade over JD, only 23.
Juan Soto, as noted.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san...e/1670424/

BTW, Zaidi says center field will be a priority, same with depth at shortstop. Bellinger is the CF prize, Bader, Taylor, Kiermaier best remaining gloves. NY Post says Giants want an upgrade at 3B. Chapman?

[Mick]

The big news and noise is on free agents. How about trade targets? These are suggested by Taylor Wirth:

Luis Robert, Jr., ChiSox OF, 26 yrs old, 38 HRs
Mike Trout, Angels OF, owed $250 mms., 32, 2nd coming of Mickey Mantle
Corbin Bernes, 3x All Star, Cy Young, Brewers, top of rotation ace
Spencer Steer, Cincy UT INF, 25, Cincy needs pitching prospects
Dylan Cease, 2nd for Cy Young in 2022, down year last year, 27, had 214 strikeouts, bad ERA, good FIP, under contract for two seasons
Christian Yelich, Giant killer, Brewers, owed $130 mms. for 5 years, good bounceback in 2023, .817 OPS
Pete Alonso, 46 HR/117 RBI, Mets, capable, just hit .217, 3x All Star, only 29, 
Nolan Gorman, Cards, 2B/3B, breakout last year, upgrade over JD, only 23.
Juan Soto, as noted.

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/mlb/san...e/1670424/

BTW, Zaidi says center field will be a priority, same with depth at shortstop. Bellinger is the CF prize, Bader, Taylor, Kiermaier best remaining gloves. NY Post says Giants want an upgrade at 3B. Chapman?

[BobK]

The chapman of 2023 is not an upgrade

[BobK]

The chapman of 2023 is not an upgrade

[Giants]

Significant upgrade defensively and an upgrade re: power hitting.

Per Baggerly, Zaidi alluded to a Melvin/Chapman reunion in some comments he made recently.  I would put Chapman to the Giants at 80-90%.    

Among the big names, Yamamoto, Chapman, Bellinger would be a dream scenario.  Add a backup catcher, a reliever or two and I believe it could be called a very successful off-season.

[Giants]

Significant upgrade defensively and an upgrade re: power hitting.

Per Baggerly, Zaidi alluded to a Melvin/Chapman reunion in some comments he made recently.  I would put Chapman to the Giants at 80-90%.    

Among the big names, Yamamoto, Chapman, Bellinger would be a dream scenario.  Add a backup catcher, a reliever or two and I believe it could be called a very successful off-season.

[OutsiderFan]

Among the big names, Yamamoto, Chapman, Bellinger would be a dream scenario.  Add a backup catcher, a reliever or two and I believe it could be called a very successful off-season.

Bellinger is - and honestly should be - the #1 Yankees target. Short porch RF in Yankee stadium will be tough to turn down.
I'd like to be alive when the Giants beat the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, and/or Phillies for a top of market Free Agent they all covet.

[OutsiderFan]

Among the big names, Yamamoto, Chapman, Bellinger would be a dream scenario.  Add a backup catcher, a reliever or two and I believe it could be called a very successful off-season.

Bellinger is - and honestly should be - the #1 Yankees target. Short porch RF in Yankee stadium will be tough to turn down.
I'd like to be alive when the Giants beat the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, and/or Phillies for a top of market Free Agent they all covet.