[Sakibomb25]

Great article on fringe players on the WNBA, with the main focus being on Jones HERE.

I think with Jones, it was just a matter of being in the right system to highlight her strengths and minimize her weaknesses. Hopefully she sticks next season as well.

[Sakibomb25]

Great article on fringe players on the WNBA, with the main focus being on Jones HERE.

I think with Jones, it was just a matter of being in the right system to highlight her strengths and minimize her weaknesses. Hopefully she sticks next season as well.

[M T]

haley jones had 18 points in the wings loss to the valkyries yesterday.

Per WNBA stats, she had a positive +/- (of only 4 though).
That's her first positive +/- since June.  That was 12 straight negatives.

[M T]

haley jones had 18 points in the wings loss to the valkyries yesterday.

Per WNBA stats, she had a positive +/- (of only 4 though).
That's her first positive +/- since June.  That was 12 straight negatives.

[BostonCard]

Buried in there is the fact that the Valkyries have won five straight and clinched a playoff spot in their inaugural season (currently, they are the sixth seed).

Dallas is 9-33 and in last place; they’ve lost 9 in a row.  So Jones having a negative +/- for a bunch of those games is not surprising, given that the team has had a negative +/- for 9 consecutive games.

BC

[BostonCard]

Buried in there is the fact that the Valkyries have won five straight and clinched a playoff spot in their inaugural season (currently, they are the sixth seed).

Dallas is 9-33 and in last place; they’ve lost 9 in a row.  So Jones having a negative +/- for a bunch of those games is not surprising, given that the team has had a negative +/- for 9 consecutive games.

BC

[M T]

Dallas is 9-33 and in last place; they’ve lost 9 in a row.  So Jones having a negative +/- for a bunch of those games is not surprising, given that the team has had a negative +/- for 9 consecutive games.

and vice versa,
Since one of the Dallas players has had a negative +/- for 12 games in a row, it is not surprising that the team has had a negative +/- for 9 consecutive games.

I compared her 40-minute +/- ( = +/- * 40 / Minutes played) versus the team's +/- (ie, game score differential) for the 40-minute game.
Her 40-minute +/- was more negative than the team's in each of the previous 10 games.  (She was less negative or more positive in each of the 4 games before that, which was as far as I checked.)

Maybe she was hurt or sick or tired or distracted or up against someone who took advantage of her, but she contributed more than her fair share to the team's performance in those games.

Jones 40-minute +/- minus the game differential for Sep 4 back to Jul 22:
8.71, -9.71, -13.44, -3.33, -4.33, -7.00, -21.86, -15.12, -2.71, -35.67, -11.00, 4.04, 3.84, 22.86, 0.42

[M T]

Dallas is 9-33 and in last place; they’ve lost 9 in a row.  So Jones having a negative +/- for a bunch of those games is not surprising, given that the team has had a negative +/- for 9 consecutive games.

and vice versa,
Since one of the Dallas players has had a negative +/- for 12 games in a row, it is not surprising that the team has had a negative +/- for 9 consecutive games.

I compared her 40-minute +/- ( = +/- * 40 / Minutes played) versus the team's +/- (ie, game score differential) for the 40-minute game.
Her 40-minute +/- was more negative than the team's in each of the previous 10 games.  (She was less negative or more positive in each of the 4 games before that, which was as far as I checked.)

Maybe she was hurt or sick or tired or distracted or up against someone who took advantage of her, but she contributed more than her fair share to the team's performance in those games.

Jones 40-minute +/- minus the game differential for Sep 4 back to Jul 22:
8.71, -9.71, -13.44, -3.33, -4.33, -7.00, -21.86, -15.12, -2.71, -35.67, -11.00, 4.04, 3.84, 22.86, 0.42

[Hieronymus]

There was some talk earlier in this thread on how brutal the roster situation is in the league. The flip is the Fever can lose half a team - I forget exactly, but they are up to 5 or 6 players out for the year - and still manage to be competitive.  At least against the Sky. They can sign Sims, and she is a useful player almost instantly.

If the Nuggets lost say Jokic, Gordon, Braun, Jones, Strawther, and Hardaway - so roughly their best, 3rd and 5th starter + 3 useful bench players - they wouldn’t win another game or even be interesting. And the replacement player they would be signing would be somebody you hardly remembered from College who would average .8 pts a game if they even made it off the bench. Blake Hinson as an example….

Fever injuries  - Clark, Cunningham, Bibby, Colson, McDonald - did I miss anybody?

[Hieronymus]

There was some talk earlier in this thread on how brutal the roster situation is in the league. The flip is the Fever can lose half a team - I forget exactly, but they are up to 5 or 6 players out for the year - and still manage to be competitive.  At least against the Sky. They can sign Sims, and she is a useful player almost instantly.

If the Nuggets lost say Jokic, Gordon, Braun, Jones, Strawther, and Hardaway - so roughly their best, 3rd and 5th starter + 3 useful bench players - they wouldn’t win another game or even be interesting. And the replacement player they would be signing would be somebody you hardly remembered from College who would average .8 pts a game if they even made it off the bench. Blake Hinson as an example….

Fever injuries  - Clark, Cunningham, Bibby, Colson, McDonald - did I miss anybody?

[OCcardinal]

There was some talk earlier in this thread on how brutal the roster situation is in the league. The flip is the Fever can lose half a team - I forget exactly, but they are up to 5 or 6 players out for the year - and still manage to be competitive.  At least against the Sky. They can sign Sims, and she is a useful player almost instantly.

If the Nuggets lost lost say Jokic, Gordon, Braun, Jones, Strawther, and Hardaway - so roughly their best, 3rd and 5th starter + 3 useful bench players - they wouldn’t win another game or even be interesting. And the replacement player they would be signing would be somebody you hardly remembered from College who would average .8 pts a game if they even made it off the bench. Blake Hinson as an example….

Fever injuries  - Clark, Cunningham, Bibby, Colson, McDonald - did I miss anybody?

Aside from the injuries you also had DeWanna Bonner, who had been signed to a $200,000 contract and was expected to be a star this season. She started only 3 games before going to the bench and eventually being waived after 9 games. Notably it was Lexie Hull who took Bonner's starting spot.  Of course Lexie has been getting even more minutes as a result of all the injuries and, with the Fever still in the playoff hunt, has become a fan favorite in Indiana as a result. Quite a turnaround for her, as a couple years ago people were calling for her to be waived.

As for Jones, her +/- has indeed been poor (especially when you compare Lexie Hull who often has a positive +/- even if the Fever lose).  Also unfortunate is the fact that Atlanta has been so much better this season without her.  Nevertheless, her stats have improved nearly across the board (she's even shooting 33.3% on threes now, which is top 50% in the league).  So hopefully there is a continued place for her and her game can continue to develop. 

All this goes to the fact that a roster size of 12 is ridiculous.  It made sense when the league was barely scraping by, but you've got teams worth more than half a billion dollars now.  A team like the Fever shouldn't have to restructure their roster every time there is an injury.  And the poor athletes on those 7-day/hardship contracts.  A team should be able to put in players that have been practicing with them and have been developing.  The NBA allows 15 players on standard contracts and an additional 3 players on 2-way contracts.  There's no G-league equivalent for the WNBA, but the W should at least increase rosters to 14 or 15 players in the next collective bargaining agreement. The WNBA and NBA have similar rates of injury per game.  There's no logical reason (other than money) to keep the rosters so small.  And the money seems to be there now.

[OCcardinal]

There was some talk earlier in this thread on how brutal the roster situation is in the league. The flip is the Fever can lose half a team - I forget exactly, but they are up to 5 or 6 players out for the year - and still manage to be competitive.  At least against the Sky. They can sign Sims, and she is a useful player almost instantly.

If the Nuggets lost lost say Jokic, Gordon, Braun, Jones, Strawther, and Hardaway - so roughly their best, 3rd and 5th starter + 3 useful bench players - they wouldn’t win another game or even be interesting. And the replacement player they would be signing would be somebody you hardly remembered from College who would average .8 pts a game if they even made it off the bench. Blake Hinson as an example….

Fever injuries  - Clark, Cunningham, Bibby, Colson, McDonald - did I miss anybody?

Aside from the injuries you also had DeWanna Bonner, who had been signed to a $200,000 contract and was expected to be a star this season. She started only 3 games before going to the bench and eventually being waived after 9 games. Notably it was Lexie Hull who took Bonner's starting spot.  Of course Lexie has been getting even more minutes as a result of all the injuries and, with the Fever still in the playoff hunt, has become a fan favorite in Indiana as a result. Quite a turnaround for her, as a couple years ago people were calling for her to be waived.

As for Jones, her +/- has indeed been poor (especially when you compare Lexie Hull who often has a positive +/- even if the Fever lose).  Also unfortunate is the fact that Atlanta has been so much better this season without her.  Nevertheless, her stats have improved nearly across the board (she's even shooting 33.3% on threes now, which is top 50% in the league).  So hopefully there is a continued place for her and her game can continue to develop. 

All this goes to the fact that a roster size of 12 is ridiculous.  It made sense when the league was barely scraping by, but you've got teams worth more than half a billion dollars now.  A team like the Fever shouldn't have to restructure their roster every time there is an injury.  And the poor athletes on those 7-day/hardship contracts.  A team should be able to put in players that have been practicing with them and have been developing.  The NBA allows 15 players on standard contracts and an additional 3 players on 2-way contracts.  There's no G-league equivalent for the WNBA, but the W should at least increase rosters to 14 or 15 players in the next collective bargaining agreement. The WNBA and NBA have similar rates of injury per game.  There's no logical reason (other than money) to keep the rosters so small.  And the money seems to be there now.

[Nobadeer]

The 8th and final WNBA playoff spot will be either the Storm (Ogwumike) or LA Sparks (Brink). LA needs to win its last two and hope Seattle loses to the Valkyries (who have clinched the 7th spot with no way of moving up or down). If so, LA and Seattle would end up tied for 8th and I think LA would prevail on the tie breaker having won the regular season series against Seattle.

Brink had a good stat line in LA's win over the weekend, only 15 minutes but 6 pts 9 reb 2 ast 1 blk, and No Fouls! Only her second foul-free appearance all season.

[Nobadeer]

The 8th and final WNBA playoff spot will be either the Storm (Ogwumike) or LA Sparks (Brink). LA needs to win its last two and hope Seattle loses to the Valkyries (who have clinched the 7th spot with no way of moving up or down). If so, LA and Seattle would end up tied for 8th and I think LA would prevail on the tie breaker having won the regular season series against Seattle.

Brink had a good stat line in LA's win over the weekend, only 15 minutes but 6 pts 9 reb 2 ast 1 blk, and No Fouls! Only her second foul-free appearance all season.

[2006alum]

The 8th and final WNBA playoff spot will be either the Storm (Ogwumike) or LA Sparks (Brink). LA needs to win its last two and hope Seattle loses to the Valkyries (who have clinched the 7th spot with no way of moving up or down). If so, LA and Seattle would end up tied for 8th and I think LA would prevail on the tie breaker having won the regular season series against Seattle.

Brink had a good stat line in LA's win over the weekend, only 15 minutes but 6 pts 9 reb 2 ast 1 blk, and No Fouls! Only her second foul-free appearance all season.

The Valks fan in me needs to correct that in fact the Valks could still finish 6th or 8th - we'll finish 6th if we win tonight against Seattle or if the Fever lose against the Lynx. We finish 8th if Seattle wins and the Fever win both remaining games. I think everyone wants to avoid the Lynx, so these last few games matter quite a bit!

[2006alum]

The 8th and final WNBA playoff spot will be either the Storm (Ogwumike) or LA Sparks (Brink). LA needs to win its last two and hope Seattle loses to the Valkyries (who have clinched the 7th spot with no way of moving up or down). If so, LA and Seattle would end up tied for 8th and I think LA would prevail on the tie breaker having won the regular season series against Seattle.

Brink had a good stat line in LA's win over the weekend, only 15 minutes but 6 pts 9 reb 2 ast 1 blk, and No Fouls! Only her second foul-free appearance all season.

The Valks fan in me needs to correct that in fact the Valks could still finish 6th or 8th - we'll finish 6th if we win tonight against Seattle or if the Fever lose against the Lynx. We finish 8th if Seattle wins and the Fever win both remaining games. I think everyone wants to avoid the Lynx, so these last few games matter quite a bit!

[Nobadeer]

Thanks for the clarification 2006; Go Valks! (although, Ogwumike has had a great season at age 35 and for her sake I hope Seattle gets the final playoff spot. LA would miss out but Brink has many years and playoff chances and $$ to come in her career)

The Fever have already won their season finale tonight by upsetting the Lynx, and the Fever's regular season record is 24-20. Hull started, played 26 minutes had 4 pts 5 reb 4 ast and 1 stl. For Minnesota, A. Smith, 11 pt 3 reb 4 ast 2 blk 1 ast. Carrington DNP, probably still recovering from last week's shoulder injury.

[Nobadeer]

Thanks for the clarification 2006; Go Valks! (although, Ogwumike has had a great season at age 35 and for her sake I hope Seattle gets the final playoff spot. LA would miss out but Brink has many years and playoff chances and $$ to come in her career)

The Fever have already won their season finale tonight by upsetting the Lynx, and the Fever's regular season record is 24-20. Hull started, played 26 minutes had 4 pts 5 reb 4 ast and 1 stl. For Minnesota, A. Smith, 11 pt 3 reb 4 ast 2 blk 1 ast. Carrington DNP, probably still recovering from last week's shoulder injury.

[old spanish trail]

Thanks for the clarification 2006; Go Valks! (although, Ogwumike has had a great season at age 35 and for her sake I hope Seattle gets the final playoff spot. LA would miss out but Brink has many years and playoff chances and $$ to come in her career)

The Fever have already won their season finale tonight by upsetting the Lynx, and the Fever's regular season record is 24-20. Hull started, played 26 minutes had 4 pts 5 reb 4 ast and 1 stl. For Minnesota, A. Smith, 11 pt 3 reb 4 ast 2 blk 1 ast. Carrington DNP, probably still recovering from last week's shoulder injury.

Carrington was dressed for the occasion though. Love it.

[old spanish trail]

Thanks for the clarification 2006; Go Valks! (although, Ogwumike has had a great season at age 35 and for her sake I hope Seattle gets the final playoff spot. LA would miss out but Brink has many years and playoff chances and $$ to come in her career)

The Fever have already won their season finale tonight by upsetting the Lynx, and the Fever's regular season record is 24-20. Hull started, played 26 minutes had 4 pts 5 reb 4 ast and 1 stl. For Minnesota, A. Smith, 11 pt 3 reb 4 ast 2 blk 1 ast. Carrington DNP, probably still recovering from last week's shoulder injury.

Carrington was dressed for the occasion though. Love it.

[Nobadeer]

Seattle edged the Valkyries 74-73 in the last minute to clinch the final playoff spot. LA won its game tonight and have one more to play but are mathematically eliminated.

Ogwumike 16 pts 8 rebs in 32 mins. Brink 4 pts 6 rebs in 15 minutes.

I think Seattle's reward is a first round series v. the Lynx. Golden State faces Las Vegas. The Fever will play Atlanta.

[Nobadeer]

Seattle edged the Valkyries 74-73 in the last minute to clinch the final playoff spot. LA won its game tonight and have one more to play but are mathematically eliminated.

Ogwumike 16 pts 8 rebs in 32 mins. Brink 4 pts 6 rebs in 15 minutes.

I think Seattle's reward is a first round series v. the Lynx. Golden State faces Las Vegas. The Fever will play Atlanta.

[WBB fan]

ESPN commentators have Alana Smith as front-runner for DPOY. Love it!  (And for Valkyries fans, Burton as heavy favorite for most improved player, Nakasa as almost certain coach of the year)

[WBB fan]

ESPN commentators have Alana Smith as front-runner for DPOY. Love it!  (And for Valkyries fans, Burton as heavy favorite for most improved player, Nakasa as almost certain coach of the year)

[Nobadeer]

Fever and Storm both down 0-1 in the playoffs, game 2 tomorrow. Neither Hull nor Ogwumike had their best game. The Storm got blown out by 25 points. First round is best of 3 so both the Fever and Storm are in must-win situations!

[Nobadeer]

Fever and Storm both down 0-1 in the playoffs, game 2 tomorrow. Neither Hull nor Ogwumike had their best game. The Storm got blown out by 25 points. First round is best of 3 so both the Fever and Storm are in must-win situations!

[Nobadeer]

Fever and Storm both win! Storm used only 7 players and overcame a 10 point deficit in the final minutes, Ogwumike outstanding, 34 minutes, 24 pts 10 reb 3 ast

Fever had a big 3rd quarter and beat Atl by 17. Hull started, 23 minutes, 7 pt 5 reb 1 ast.

Both teams go back on the road for the deciding game 3 on Thursday.

[Nobadeer]

Fever and Storm both win! Storm used only 7 players and overcame a 10 point deficit in the final minutes, Ogwumike outstanding, 34 minutes, 24 pts 10 reb 3 ast

Fever had a big 3rd quarter and beat Atl by 17. Hull started, 23 minutes, 7 pt 5 reb 1 ast.

Both teams go back on the road for the deciding game 3 on Thursday.

[Nobadeer]

Valkyries winning by double digits at halftime! Smith and Carrington not at their best for Minn. Carrington shot and missed three 3-pointers within about 5 possessions.

[Nobadeer]

Valkyries winning by double digits at halftime! Smith and Carrington not at their best for Minn. Carrington shot and missed three 3-pointers within about 5 possessions.

[Lorcan]

Somehow the Lynx escape against the Valkyries. Just ran out of magic at the end there. Nakase is a brilliant coach to have them in that game at the end.

[Lorcan]

Somehow the Lynx escape against the Valkyries. Just ran out of magic at the end there. Nakase is a brilliant coach to have them in that game at the end.

[old spanish trail]

Carrington with an important 3 late in the 4th qtr

[old spanish trail]

Carrington with an important 3 late in the 4th qtr

[Nobadeer]

Yes, unfortunately for the Valkyries, Carrington made a difference in the fourth quarter, with a pair of threes and disruptive defense. She ended up with 11 pts in 14 minutes. It looked like she may have injured her foot or ankle on her last pass deflection and didn't play the final couple minutes.

Smith played only 19 minutes, 2 pts, 3 blk.

[Nobadeer]

Yes, unfortunately for the Valkyries, Carrington made a difference in the fourth quarter, with a pair of threes and disruptive defense. She ended up with 11 pts in 14 minutes. It looked like she may have injured her foot or ankle on her last pass deflection and didn't play the final couple minutes.

Smith played only 19 minutes, 2 pts, 3 blk.

[mbdude]

alanna smith (yay!) and aja wilson finish in tie for Defensive Player of the Year. each received 29 votes.

[mbdude]

alanna smith (yay!) and aja wilson finish in tie for Defensive Player of the Year. each received 29 votes.

[BobK]

Lexie with the steal. Fever advances first time in 10 years

[BobK]

Lexie with the steal. Fever advances first time in 10 years