[socalstanfan1]

I flat do not believe that Amir Carlisle would be leaving the University of South Central if he expected to be a featured part of the Trojan offense next year. Nor do I suggest it's hateful for Lane Kiffin to tell Carlisle that if it's true. If and when there's evidence that Kiffin is yanking scholarships to make room, then I'll hate.

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.  Is it "hateful" for Kiffin, or any other coach, to encourage players to look for other options by honestly telling them they won't see the field?  Telling Kyle Prater, for example, that it is very unlikely that he will get any PT, and he may have a better chance someplace else, seems to me in some ways ethical, actually.  More ethical than giving false hope to a kid who was a star in HS and who still entertains dreams of playing on Sundays.  What we cannot know is whether that is really where the conversation ends, or is the kid pressured in other ways to make that decision to leave.  My question: how common is this with USC?  How many students, on average, leave USC each year for opportunities to play elsewhere?  For me, if this is a really unusually high number of transfers (say, double the normal number or more), I would take that as an indication (maybe not "evidence") that there is some kind of pressure being applied.  If this is a normal number, and we are all just noticing it because of the scholarship limit coming up, then it is probably just business as usual at USC.

R.E. Carlisle, I'm beginning to wonder exactly what is going into the young man's decisions (which are entirely his to make).  He commits early here, noting that he felt it was a divine call; then said he was headed to USC due to the drama program; now he is off to the midwest, where he will be close to dad (coincidence? maybe, or maybe not).  I'm not sure that he would be someone Kiffin "ran off," just based on his performance as a true freshman last year.  It is possible that some of the attrition in the program is just normal, business as usual, but other people leaving is the result of some additional "encouragement".

[socalstanfan1]

I flat do not believe that Amir Carlisle would be leaving the University of South Central if he expected to be a featured part of the Trojan offense next year. Nor do I suggest it's hateful for Lane Kiffin to tell Carlisle that if it's true. If and when there's evidence that Kiffin is yanking scholarships to make room, then I'll hate.

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.  Is it "hateful" for Kiffin, or any other coach, to encourage players to look for other options by honestly telling them they won't see the field?  Telling Kyle Prater, for example, that it is very unlikely that he will get any PT, and he may have a better chance someplace else, seems to me in some ways ethical, actually.  More ethical than giving false hope to a kid who was a star in HS and who still entertains dreams of playing on Sundays.  What we cannot know is whether that is really where the conversation ends, or is the kid pressured in other ways to make that decision to leave.  My question: how common is this with USC?  How many students, on average, leave USC each year for opportunities to play elsewhere?  For me, if this is a really unusually high number of transfers (say, double the normal number or more), I would take that as an indication (maybe not "evidence") that there is some kind of pressure being applied.  If this is a normal number, and we are all just noticing it because of the scholarship limit coming up, then it is probably just business as usual at USC.

R.E. Carlisle, I'm beginning to wonder exactly what is going into the young man's decisions (which are entirely his to make).  He commits early here, noting that he felt it was a divine call; then said he was headed to USC due to the drama program; now he is off to the midwest, where he will be close to dad (coincidence? maybe, or maybe not).  I'm not sure that he would be someone Kiffin "ran off," just based on his performance as a true freshman last year.  It is possible that some of the attrition in the program is just normal, business as usual, but other people leaving is the result of some additional "encouragement".

[washingtonismoney]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.

NCAA scholarships are guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, so just yanking a scholarship seems to be legal.

[washingtonismoney]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.

NCAA scholarships are guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, so just yanking a scholarship seems to be legal.

[washingtonismoney]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.

NCAA scholarships are guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, so just yanking a scholarship seems to be legal.

[washingtonismoney]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.

NCAA scholarships are guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, so just yanking a scholarship seems to be legal.

[washingtonismoney]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.

NCAA scholarships are guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, so just yanking a scholarship seems to be legal.

[washingtonismoney]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.  That seems to be the reason Saban and others use medical scholarships to clear room on the team.

NCAA scholarships are guaranteed on a year-by-year basis, so just yanking a scholarship seems to be legal.

[terry]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.

There's no rule against that. It does happen. Sometimes it's done with no attempt to disguise it, with the coach just refusing to renew a scholarship. Other times it's more subtle, with the coach using pressure, persuasion, and veiled threats to get rid of guys he doesn't want. Usually the coach comes up with some pretext for public consumption, truthful or not. The thing that's curious about U.S.C. is that so many U.S.C. guys are leaving at once, at a time that U.S.C. really needs to cut down the number of scholarship players on its roster. It's one of those things that make you go hmmm. . . .

[terry]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.

There's no rule against that. It does happen. Sometimes it's done with no attempt to disguise it, with the coach just refusing to renew a scholarship. Other times it's more subtle, with the coach using pressure, persuasion, and veiled threats to get rid of guys he doesn't want. Usually the coach comes up with some pretext for public consumption, truthful or not. The thing that's curious about U.S.C. is that so many U.S.C. guys are leaving at once, at a time that U.S.C. really needs to cut down the number of scholarship players on its roster. It's one of those things that make you go hmmm. . . .

[terry]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.

There's no rule against that. It does happen. Sometimes it's done with no attempt to disguise it, with the coach just refusing to renew a scholarship. Other times it's more subtle, with the coach using pressure, persuasion, and veiled threats to get rid of guys he doesn't want. Usually the coach comes up with some pretext for public consumption, truthful or not. The thing that's curious about U.S.C. is that so many U.S.C. guys are leaving at once, at a time that U.S.C. really needs to cut down the number of scholarship players on its roster. It's one of those things that make you go hmmm. . . .

[terry]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.

There's no rule against that. It does happen. Sometimes it's done with no attempt to disguise it, with the coach just refusing to renew a scholarship. Other times it's more subtle, with the coach using pressure, persuasion, and veiled threats to get rid of guys he doesn't want. Usually the coach comes up with some pretext for public consumption, truthful or not. The thing that's curious about U.S.C. is that so many U.S.C. guys are leaving at once, at a time that U.S.C. really needs to cut down the number of scholarship players on its roster. It's one of those things that make you go hmmm. . . .

[terry]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.

There's no rule against that. It does happen. Sometimes it's done with no attempt to disguise it, with the coach just refusing to renew a scholarship. Other times it's more subtle, with the coach using pressure, persuasion, and veiled threats to get rid of guys he doesn't want. Usually the coach comes up with some pretext for public consumption, truthful or not. The thing that's curious about U.S.C. is that so many U.S.C. guys are leaving at once, at a time that U.S.C. really needs to cut down the number of scholarship players on its roster. It's one of those things that make you go hmmm. . . .

[terry]

I'm guessing that it would violate some NCAA rules if head coaches just "yanked" players scholarships just because they did not perform up to expectations.

There's no rule against that. It does happen. Sometimes it's done with no attempt to disguise it, with the coach just refusing to renew a scholarship. Other times it's more subtle, with the coach using pressure, persuasion, and veiled threats to get rid of guys he doesn't want. Usually the coach comes up with some pretext for public consumption, truthful or not. The thing that's curious about U.S.C. is that so many U.S.C. guys are leaving at once, at a time that U.S.C. really needs to cut down the number of scholarship players on its roster. It's one of those things that make you go hmmm. . . .

[socalstanfan1]

Thanks, guys, for the info.  I guess I was assuming that athletic scholarships were more like funding packages for graduate students at many institutions, in which even if a student is in a department and getting out-performed by non-funded students, their funding is secure.

Learn something new every day.

[socalstanfan1]

Thanks, guys, for the info.  I guess I was assuming that athletic scholarships were more like funding packages for graduate students at many institutions, in which even if a student is in a department and getting out-performed by non-funded students, their funding is secure.

Learn something new every day.

[socalstanfan1]

Thanks, guys, for the info.  I guess I was assuming that athletic scholarships were more like funding packages for graduate students at many institutions, in which even if a student is in a department and getting out-performed by non-funded students, their funding is secure.

Learn something new every day.

[socalstanfan1]

Thanks, guys, for the info.  I guess I was assuming that athletic scholarships were more like funding packages for graduate students at many institutions, in which even if a student is in a department and getting out-performed by non-funded students, their funding is secure.

Learn something new every day.

[socalstanfan1]

Thanks, guys, for the info.  I guess I was assuming that athletic scholarships were more like funding packages for graduate students at many institutions, in which even if a student is in a department and getting out-performed by non-funded students, their funding is secure.

Learn something new every day.

[socalstanfan1]

Thanks, guys, for the info.  I guess I was assuming that athletic scholarships were more like funding packages for graduate students at many institutions, in which even if a student is in a department and getting out-performed by non-funded students, their funding is secure.

Learn something new every day.

[fullmetal]

Why on Earth would players leave a program with only 75 scholarship players AND a shot at the BCS title game?

That's the puzzling thing to me.  It's one thing to move for lifestyle changes, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

garvin, shouldn't we be hating Lane Kiffen on principle? :p

[fullmetal]

Why on Earth would players leave a program with only 75 scholarship players AND a shot at the BCS title game?

That's the puzzling thing to me.  It's one thing to move for lifestyle changes, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

garvin, shouldn't we be hating Lane Kiffen on principle? :p

[fullmetal]

Why on Earth would players leave a program with only 75 scholarship players AND a shot at the BCS title game?

That's the puzzling thing to me.  It's one thing to move for lifestyle changes, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

garvin, shouldn't we be hating Lane Kiffen on principle? :p

[fullmetal]

Why on Earth would players leave a program with only 75 scholarship players AND a shot at the BCS title game?

That's the puzzling thing to me.  It's one thing to move for lifestyle changes, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

garvin, shouldn't we be hating Lane Kiffen on principle? :p

[fullmetal]

Why on Earth would players leave a program with only 75 scholarship players AND a shot at the BCS title game?

That's the puzzling thing to me.  It's one thing to move for lifestyle changes, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

garvin, shouldn't we be hating Lane Kiffen on principle? :p

[fullmetal]

Why on Earth would players leave a program with only 75 scholarship players AND a shot at the BCS title game?

That's the puzzling thing to me.  It's one thing to move for lifestyle changes, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

garvin, shouldn't we be hating Lane Kiffen on principle? :p

[JohnR34231]

I don't find players like Kyle Prater leaving particularly surprising.

He came to U$C thinking he was going to be the man, and now he is playing third fiddle to Robert Woods and Marquise Lee.

Yeah, he'd probably get some action if he stuck around, but why not go some place where he is going to be the featured guy.

He might miss out on a BCS title game but his NFL opportunities are going to be a lot better.

[JohnR34231]

I don't find players like Kyle Prater leaving particularly surprising.

He came to U$C thinking he was going to be the man, and now he is playing third fiddle to Robert Woods and Marquise Lee.

Yeah, he'd probably get some action if he stuck around, but why not go some place where he is going to be the featured guy.

He might miss out on a BCS title game but his NFL opportunities are going to be a lot better.

[JohnR34231]

I don't find players like Kyle Prater leaving particularly surprising.

He came to U$C thinking he was going to be the man, and now he is playing third fiddle to Robert Woods and Marquise Lee.

Yeah, he'd probably get some action if he stuck around, but why not go some place where he is going to be the featured guy.

He might miss out on a BCS title game but his NFL opportunities are going to be a lot better.

[JohnR34231]

I don't find players like Kyle Prater leaving particularly surprising.

He came to U$C thinking he was going to be the man, and now he is playing third fiddle to Robert Woods and Marquise Lee.

Yeah, he'd probably get some action if he stuck around, but why not go some place where he is going to be the featured guy.

He might miss out on a BCS title game but his NFL opportunities are going to be a lot better.

[JohnR34231]

I don't find players like Kyle Prater leaving particularly surprising.

He came to U$C thinking he was going to be the man, and now he is playing third fiddle to Robert Woods and Marquise Lee.

Yeah, he'd probably get some action if he stuck around, but why not go some place where he is going to be the featured guy.

He might miss out on a BCS title game but his NFL opportunities are going to be a lot better.

[JohnR34231]

I don't find players like Kyle Prater leaving particularly surprising.

He came to U$C thinking he was going to be the man, and now he is playing third fiddle to Robert Woods and Marquise Lee.

Yeah, he'd probably get some action if he stuck around, but why not go some place where he is going to be the featured guy.

He might miss out on a BCS title game but his NFL opportunities are going to be a lot better.

[Redrum]

Not if Prater goes someplace like Indiana University,  which has so mishandled their QB situation as the icing on a crappy team cake.  Two of their undergraduate QBs announced they are transfering out this week.  Both had starts this past season.  The subtext is that the HC plays favorites.    Don't know about that.  A coach,  particularly one at a floundering program,  has got to make the changes he thinks will turn things around.  But neither Ed Wright-Baker nor Dusty Kiel covered themselves or the team with glory.  The hell of it is the coach has, in a way,  lost 3 QBs in one season.  Gunner Kiel,  supposedly the better of the two Kiel brothers and an elite high school QB in his senior season,  had already committed to join his brother in Indiana,  got a  longer look at the situation at IU,  and decommitted.    Three QBs gone in four months.  Yikes.    And they wonder why so many coaches are retired at age 52.

[Redrum]

Not if Prater goes someplace like Indiana University,  which has so mishandled their QB situation as the icing on a crappy team cake.  Two of their undergraduate QBs announced they are transfering out this week.  Both had starts this past season.  The subtext is that the HC plays favorites.    Don't know about that.  A coach,  particularly one at a floundering program,  has got to make the changes he thinks will turn things around.  But neither Ed Wright-Baker nor Dusty Kiel covered themselves or the team with glory.  The hell of it is the coach has, in a way,  lost 3 QBs in one season.  Gunner Kiel,  supposedly the better of the two Kiel brothers and an elite high school QB in his senior season,  had already committed to join his brother in Indiana,  got a  longer look at the situation at IU,  and decommitted.    Three QBs gone in four months.  Yikes.    And they wonder why so many coaches are retired at age 52.

[Redrum]

Not if Prater goes someplace like Indiana University,  which has so mishandled their QB situation as the icing on a crappy team cake.  Two of their undergraduate QBs announced they are transfering out this week.  Both had starts this past season.  The subtext is that the HC plays favorites.    Don't know about that.  A coach,  particularly one at a floundering program,  has got to make the changes he thinks will turn things around.  But neither Ed Wright-Baker nor Dusty Kiel covered themselves or the team with glory.  The hell of it is the coach has, in a way,  lost 3 QBs in one season.  Gunner Kiel,  supposedly the better of the two Kiel brothers and an elite high school QB in his senior season,  had already committed to join his brother in Indiana,  got a  longer look at the situation at IU,  and decommitted.    Three QBs gone in four months.  Yikes.    And they wonder why so many coaches are retired at age 52.

[Redrum]

Not if Prater goes someplace like Indiana University,  which has so mishandled their QB situation as the icing on a crappy team cake.  Two of their undergraduate QBs announced they are transfering out this week.  Both had starts this past season.  The subtext is that the HC plays favorites.    Don't know about that.  A coach,  particularly one at a floundering program,  has got to make the changes he thinks will turn things around.  But neither Ed Wright-Baker nor Dusty Kiel covered themselves or the team with glory.  The hell of it is the coach has, in a way,  lost 3 QBs in one season.  Gunner Kiel,  supposedly the better of the two Kiel brothers and an elite high school QB in his senior season,  had already committed to join his brother in Indiana,  got a  longer look at the situation at IU,  and decommitted.    Three QBs gone in four months.  Yikes.    And they wonder why so many coaches are retired at age 52.

[Redrum]

Not if Prater goes someplace like Indiana University,  which has so mishandled their QB situation as the icing on a crappy team cake.  Two of their undergraduate QBs announced they are transfering out this week.  Both had starts this past season.  The subtext is that the HC plays favorites.    Don't know about that.  A coach,  particularly one at a floundering program,  has got to make the changes he thinks will turn things around.  But neither Ed Wright-Baker nor Dusty Kiel covered themselves or the team with glory.  The hell of it is the coach has, in a way,  lost 3 QBs in one season.  Gunner Kiel,  supposedly the better of the two Kiel brothers and an elite high school QB in his senior season,  had already committed to join his brother in Indiana,  got a  longer look at the situation at IU,  and decommitted.    Three QBs gone in four months.  Yikes.    And they wonder why so many coaches are retired at age 52.

[Redrum]

Not if Prater goes someplace like Indiana University,  which has so mishandled their QB situation as the icing on a crappy team cake.  Two of their undergraduate QBs announced they are transfering out this week.  Both had starts this past season.  The subtext is that the HC plays favorites.    Don't know about that.  A coach,  particularly one at a floundering program,  has got to make the changes he thinks will turn things around.  But neither Ed Wright-Baker nor Dusty Kiel covered themselves or the team with glory.  The hell of it is the coach has, in a way,  lost 3 QBs in one season.  Gunner Kiel,  supposedly the better of the two Kiel brothers and an elite high school QB in his senior season,  had already committed to join his brother in Indiana,  got a  longer look at the situation at IU,  and decommitted.    Three QBs gone in four months.  Yikes.    And they wonder why so many coaches are retired at age 52.