[BostonCard]

Don’t tell former Stanford star Anthony Brown who is playing in Russia per go Stanford

I would scream it from the rooftops not to go to Russia.

BC

[BostonCard]

Don’t tell former Stanford star Anthony Brown who is playing in Russia per go Stanford

I would scream it from the rooftops not to go to Russia.

BC

[M T]

No longer anonymous, he seems to be moving into management...
"Viktor Bout: Russia's released arms dealer joins ultranationalist party"

[M T]

No longer anonymous, he seems to be moving into management...
"Viktor Bout: Russia's released arms dealer joins ultranationalist party"

[Leftcoast]

Well, to turn the weak US/strong Russian narrative on it's head the US showed they care about ordinary citizens and victims of injustice while the Soviets showed they valued freeing an arms dealer that exported death to terrorists in the developing world.  If I were watching this from the outside I know where I'd want to live.

Bout was detained in 2010 and received a 25 year sentence of which he served half.  He is no longer anonymous and his arms dealing hey-day is 22 years in the rear view mirror.  He's unlikely to travel outside of Russia ever again.  Not justice but no one was going to get Briner freed without an unsavory trade of some sort.

A few questions/comments:

US showed they care about ordinary citizens: Do you really consider Griner, a two time gold medal olympian, an WNBA star, a prominent member of the African American and LBGTQ communities an ordinary citizen?

Yup, not a US employee, not military and, in fact, simply a citizen.  She may be well known here but I'm guessing very few people in the US knew who she was prior to her imprisonment ... and not many cared.  Thus the successful campaign to raise awareness in basketball circles.

A victim of injustice: Griner, her lawyer, and her wife all acknowledge she entered Russia with hash oil. How is she a victim of injustice?

I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests.  Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money.  My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs.  I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.

the Soviets [sic] showed they valued freeing an arms dealer that exported death to terrorists in the developing world: Bout didn't export death to terrorists. He sold them the weapons to bring death upon their enemies, especially the US, its partners, and their citizens. How is bargaining for the freedom of such an important weapon against your enemies perceived as being a bad thing?

Morality and values matter.  My point was this very clearly pointed to a stark difference (IMHO) between the two countries.  Let's not forget this guy supplied arms to some of the most unsavory conflicts in modern history (Sudan, Congo, Taliban, etc). He reputedly supplied BOTH sides of several conflicts.  But a Russian hero ... so yeah it shows state values clearly.

He is no longer anonymous and his arms dealing hey-day is 22 years in the rear view mirror. Was he ever anonymous? If he was arrested in 2010, help with the math that his heyday was 22 years ago.

Arrested in 2008 but was under US and Interpol watch since the early 2000s which reportedly greatly curtailed his travel and network.  May have been why he got desperate and allowed himself to get set-up.  

Not justice but no one was going to get Briner freed without an unsavory trade of some sort. No comment here, as a logical, historical reply would be deemed too political.

Well, this is unfortunately political to some.  I'm happy a US citizen was freed even if she's did something stupid and has never been my favorite player dating back to here days at Baylor.  

I bet there is a lot of rethinking going on among WNBA players as unlike mens basketball playing overseas isn't just for WNBA wannabes.  Many recent WNBA all-stars played there - Off the top of my head, Sue Bird, Candace Parker, Breanna Stewart, Diana Taurasi, current WNBA MVP Janquel Jones, etc.  Another large set of WNBA and Stanford alums play in Turkey which may also be due for closer examination.

[Leftcoast]

Well, to turn the weak US/strong Russian narrative on it's head the US showed they care about ordinary citizens and victims of injustice while the Soviets showed they valued freeing an arms dealer that exported death to terrorists in the developing world.  If I were watching this from the outside I know where I'd want to live.

Bout was detained in 2010 and received a 25 year sentence of which he served half.  He is no longer anonymous and his arms dealing hey-day is 22 years in the rear view mirror.  He's unlikely to travel outside of Russia ever again.  Not justice but no one was going to get Briner freed without an unsavory trade of some sort.

A few questions/comments:

US showed they care about ordinary citizens: Do you really consider Griner, a two time gold medal olympian, an WNBA star, a prominent member of the African American and LBGTQ communities an ordinary citizen?

Yup, not a US employee, not military and, in fact, simply a citizen.  She may be well known here but I'm guessing very few people in the US knew who she was prior to her imprisonment ... and not many cared.  Thus the successful campaign to raise awareness in basketball circles.

A victim of injustice: Griner, her lawyer, and her wife all acknowledge she entered Russia with hash oil. How is she a victim of injustice?

I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests.  Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money.  My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs.  I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.

the Soviets [sic] showed they valued freeing an arms dealer that exported death to terrorists in the developing world: Bout didn't export death to terrorists. He sold them the weapons to bring death upon their enemies, especially the US, its partners, and their citizens. How is bargaining for the freedom of such an important weapon against your enemies perceived as being a bad thing?

Morality and values matter.  My point was this very clearly pointed to a stark difference (IMHO) between the two countries.  Let's not forget this guy supplied arms to some of the most unsavory conflicts in modern history (Sudan, Congo, Taliban, etc). He reputedly supplied BOTH sides of several conflicts.  But a Russian hero ... so yeah it shows state values clearly.

He is no longer anonymous and his arms dealing hey-day is 22 years in the rear view mirror. Was he ever anonymous? If he was arrested in 2010, help with the math that his heyday was 22 years ago.

Arrested in 2008 but was under US and Interpol watch since the early 2000s which reportedly greatly curtailed his travel and network.  May have been why he got desperate and allowed himself to get set-up.  

Not justice but no one was going to get Briner freed without an unsavory trade of some sort. No comment here, as a logical, historical reply would be deemed too political.

Well, this is unfortunately political to some.  I'm happy a US citizen was freed even if she's did something stupid and has never been my favorite player dating back to here days at Baylor.  

I bet there is a lot of rethinking going on among WNBA players as unlike mens basketball playing overseas isn't just for WNBA wannabes.  Many recent WNBA all-stars played there - Off the top of my head, Sue Bird, Candace Parker, Breanna Stewart, Diana Taurasi, current WNBA MVP Janquel Jones, etc.  Another large set of WNBA and Stanford alums play in Turkey which may also be due for closer examination.

[Goose]

I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests.

I am interested in knowing why you believe that. Russian citizens, who are not of much use to anyone it seems, get sentences like that all the time. There is no particular reason to believe, as far as I know, that foreigners are treated any better. A Russian at least might be low visibility enough to bribe somebody if they had enough money. Otherwise, they pretty much get what Griner got.

Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money.  My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs.  I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.

You are correct, and such unwise decisions often have horrible consequences. That is why the US State Department has to be much more aggressive in keeping US citizens out of countries where we don't believe the justice system is free from government interference. Note that doesn't include places like Indonesia, where the penalty for possession to sell is death. The law there isn't corrupt, it is just harsh. Talk to the Australian's about it.

[Goose]

I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests.

I am interested in knowing why you believe that. Russian citizens, who are not of much use to anyone it seems, get sentences like that all the time. There is no particular reason to believe, as far as I know, that foreigners are treated any better. A Russian at least might be low visibility enough to bribe somebody if they had enough money. Otherwise, they pretty much get what Griner got.

Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money.  My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs.  I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.

You are correct, and such unwise decisions often have horrible consequences. That is why the US State Department has to be much more aggressive in keeping US citizens out of countries where we don't believe the justice system is free from government interference. Note that doesn't include places like Indonesia, where the penalty for possession to sell is death. The law there isn't corrupt, it is just harsh. Talk to the Australian's about it.

[Leftcoast]

I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests.

I am interested in knowing why you believe that. Russian citizens, who are not of much use to anyone it seems, get sentences like that all the time. There is no particular reason to believe, as far as I know, that foreigners are treated any better. A Russian at least might be low visibility enough to bribe somebody if they had enough money. Otherwise, they pretty much get what Griner got.

Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money.  My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs.  I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.

You are correct, and such unwise decisions often have horrible consequences. That is why the US State Department has to be much more aggressive in keeping US citizens out of countries where we don't believe the justice system is free from government interference. Note that doesn't include places like Indonesia, where the penalty for possession to sell is death. The law there isn't corrupt, it is just harsh. Talk to the Australian's about it.

I used to travel to Singapore frequently.  Before you were allowed entry you were required to sign a document stating that you knew entering Singapore with certain narcotics was punishable by execution/death.  I had a colleague with a bitter/vengeful step-daughter who was also a drug user (his words) and he would re-pack his bag at the airport before boarding our plane.  Signing that statement, no matter how "clean" you knew you were, was always a gut-check.  I'm not unmindful of penalties for carrying banned substances internationally.

But to get to your question - Yes, it's very likely Griner received a harsher sentence than an ordinary Russian.  From a news article published before her sentencing:

Foreigners tend to receive stricter sentences

“At her level, 0.7 grams of hashish oil is considered a significant quantity and the majority of cases end in a prison term. If she receives a sentence longer than three years, it’s likely politically motivated, but otherwise, it’s just an illustration of the sort of people serving jail time for drug smuggling in Russia.”

At nine years Griner received 3x the expected penalty and threshold for a politically motivated sentence. The full article uses the Griner case to discuss how Russia uses drug laws to silence critics and go after perceived enemies.  Also discusses collusion between narcotics traffickers and security forces who in many cases both arrest users and profit from trafficking.  

.

Here's the article from the news arm of Aljazeera providing an interesting outsider's viewpoint even with its jabs sent our nation's way.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/26...ce-critics

[Leftcoast]

I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have received a lengthy prison sentence if she hadn't been useful as a lever to use against US interests.

I am interested in knowing why you believe that. Russian citizens, who are not of much use to anyone it seems, get sentences like that all the time. There is no particular reason to believe, as far as I know, that foreigners are treated any better. A Russian at least might be low visibility enough to bribe somebody if they had enough money. Otherwise, they pretty much get what Griner got.

Sure she needn't have played in Russia but until recently that was the way MANY WNBA stars (and many former Stanford stars) made off-season money.  My guess is this wasn't the first time Griner and others carried CBDs.  I'd never do it, you'd never do it, it was stupid, but athletes aren't known for their wise decisions in this.

You are correct, and such unwise decisions often have horrible consequences. That is why the US State Department has to be much more aggressive in keeping US citizens out of countries where we don't believe the justice system is free from government interference. Note that doesn't include places like Indonesia, where the penalty for possession to sell is death. The law there isn't corrupt, it is just harsh. Talk to the Australian's about it.

I used to travel to Singapore frequently.  Before you were allowed entry you were required to sign a document stating that you knew entering Singapore with certain narcotics was punishable by execution/death.  I had a colleague with a bitter/vengeful step-daughter who was also a drug user (his words) and he would re-pack his bag at the airport before boarding our plane.  Signing that statement, no matter how "clean" you knew you were, was always a gut-check.  I'm not unmindful of penalties for carrying banned substances internationally.

But to get to your question - Yes, it's very likely Griner received a harsher sentence than an ordinary Russian.  From a news article published before her sentencing:

Foreigners tend to receive stricter sentences

“At her level, 0.7 grams of hashish oil is considered a significant quantity and the majority of cases end in a prison term. If she receives a sentence longer than three years, it’s likely politically motivated, but otherwise, it’s just an illustration of the sort of people serving jail time for drug smuggling in Russia.”

At nine years Griner received 3x the expected penalty and threshold for a politically motivated sentence. The full article uses the Griner case to discuss how Russia uses drug laws to silence critics and go after perceived enemies.  Also discusses collusion between narcotics traffickers and security forces who in many cases both arrest users and profit from trafficking.  

.

Here's the article from the news arm of Aljazeera providing an interesting outsider's viewpoint even with its jabs sent our nation's way.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/26...ce-critics